Termination of employment in Finland

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Christer
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:04 pm

Termination of employment in Finland

Post by Christer » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:12 pm

So I have worked for this company in Finland's capital region for 4+ years and this week I was invited to a meeting that ended up showing itself to be a "you're leaving the company, pick your way" meeting. What I mean with this is they told me that reorganization to my department was planned and that might lead to termination of an employee, showed a powerpoint slide with buzz words and told I could choose between a mutual agreement of termination of employment or they would be lead to cooperation negotiation involving the whole department.

This is where my first red flag popped up. Possible termination of one employee but I have to make a choice, this sounds to me like a very predetermined outcome which to my knowledge is illegal if cooperation negotiations are even up for discussion (the deal can come after negotiations have started but have to be open for all employees affected).

My second red flag came when I was shown a contract with compensation equaling less than 6 months pay and told that I could never tell anyone about the agreement or the reasons for the termination and me and my boss were to make a joint statement that it was my wishes to search for other employment outside the company (which is false as I have no problems continuing working there) and "btw, you can't discuss this with anyone except legal advisers outside of the people in this room now". This to me sounds shady as all hell, but not knowing Finnish law and limited time to reply (they want an answer by tomorrow night) I am wondering what I can do to make sure I am not royally screwed over?

If the matter went to cooperation negotiations, would the facts that they came to me first with an offer and tried to obfuscate facts and used the fact that I don't know Finnish law help my case or does the law not care about such things?

I'm not after making a big fuss (though more than willing to if it help my case), I just feel that if they are going about this the wrong way they have something to hide which makes me think this is not on the up and up.



Termination of employment in Finland

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FinlandGirl
Posts: 445
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Termination of employment in Finland

Post by FinlandGirl » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:39 pm

Christer wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:12 pm
and told that I could never tell anyone about the agreement or the reasons for the termination and me and my boss were to make a joint statement that it was my wishes to search for other employment outside the company
You will have to tell the employment office.
The effects of such an agreement on unemployment benefits will also reduce the financial incentive to sign the agreement.

I would not sign any agreement that forces you to tell lies in job interviews.
Christer wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:12 pm
This to me sounds shady as all hell, but not knowing Finnish law and limited time to reply (they want an answer by tomorrow night) I am wondering what I can do to make sure I am not royally screwed over?
Ask your union for advice, if you are not a union member SAK has an employee rights advisory service for immigrants.

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rinso
Posts: 3905
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm

Re: Termination of employment in Finland

Post by rinso » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:56 am

Christer wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:12 pm
So I have worked for this company in Finland's capital region for 4+ years and this week I was invited to a meeting that ended up showing itself to be a "you're leaving the company, pick your way" meeting. What I mean with this is they told me that reorganization to my department was planned and that might lead to termination of an employee, showed a powerpoint slide with buzz words and told I could choose between a mutual agreement of termination of employment or they would be lead to cooperation negotiation involving the whole department.

This is where my first red flag popped up. Possible termination of one employee but I have to make a choice, this sounds to me like a very predetermined outcome which to my knowledge is illegal if cooperation negotiations are even up for discussion (the deal can come after negotiations have started but have to be open for all employees affected).

My second red flag came when I was shown a contract with compensation equaling less than 6 months pay and told that I could never tell anyone about the agreement or the reasons for the termination and me and my boss were to make a joint statement that it was my wishes to search for other employment outside the company (which is false as I have no problems continuing working there) and "btw, you can't discuss this with anyone except legal advisers outside of the people in this room now". This to me sounds shady as all hell, but not knowing Finnish law and limited time to reply (they want an answer by tomorrow night) I am wondering what I can do to make sure I am not royally screwed over?

If the matter went to cooperation negotiations, would the facts that they came to me first with an offer and tried to obfuscate facts and used the fact that I don't know Finnish law help my case or does the law not care about such things?

I'm not after making a big fuss (though more than willing to if it help my case), I just feel that if they are going about this the wrong way they have something to hide which makes me think this is not on the up and up.
Your interview can be one of many. If they can find enough people willing to take the deal, the reorganization will become much easier. No red flag for me there.
Not wanting you to discuss it is also understandable if they have more people to interview.
On the other hand, if they singled you out, they might have a weak hand and try to rush you into accepting.
Accepting the deal will have consequences for your unemployment benefits. You have to figure out what is best for you.

If it is "we need to get rid of 1 person, no matter who" you might continue working there happily ever after. If they want to get rid of you specifically, you won't have a future there. Try to get some legal advice before making the decision.

necadam
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:57 am

Re: Termination of employment in Finland

Post by necadam » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:38 am

Christer wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:12 pm
This to me sounds shady as all hell, but not knowing Finnish law and limited time to reply (they want an answer by tomorrow night)
This is the biggest red flag here for me, that's a clear psychological manipulation. Obviously, you have nothing to lose by not signing. So don't sign. If they indeed want to fire you, you'll be always better off if you are properly fired rather than agreeing to such a crappy deal.

betelgeuse
Posts: 3580
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Termination of employment in Finland

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:20 am

necadam wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:38 am
Christer wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:12 pm
This to me sounds shady as all hell, but not knowing Finnish law and limited time to reply (they want an answer by tomorrow night)
This is the biggest red flag here for me, that's a clear psychological manipulation. Obviously, you have nothing to lose by not signing. So don't sign. If they indeed want to fire you, you'll be always better off if you are properly fired rather than agreeing to such a crappy deal.
For someone who can find a new job easily, a settlement is free money. This means not signing is not pareto optimal.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 445
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Termination of employment in Finland

Post by FinlandGirl » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:35 am

necadam wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:38 am
Obviously, you have nothing to lose by not signing. So don't sign. If they indeed want to fire you, you'll be always better off if you are properly fired rather than agreeing to such a crappy deal.
This is not true.
Financially 6 months pay without requirement to work after only 4 years at the company is an attractive offer.
The firing option would be 2.5 months of remaining employment with normal pay, so 3.5 months less pay but 2.5 months more work.
Exact numbers could differ depending on the collective agreement and employment contract.

The other circumstances are weird.
Could be the company wants to get rid of one specific person without impacting their ability to hire other people.
Or worse scenarios, this really needs a lawyer.

Christer
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Termination of employment in Finland

Post by Christer » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:56 pm

Thank you all for your replies. I posted this yesterday and had the final meeting today.

I brought up several points I can't echo here due to the identifying nature and walked out with a 7.5 months compensation package and a statement saying this as initiated by the company and I chose to capitalize on the opportunity. It ended up a lot better than planned with a few other benefits also that I can't disclose out of the identifying nature.

I think I could have fought it and possibly gotten a bit more, but realistically this was the best balance I could see. It is clear that they wanted me out and not anyone so if it wasn't this, it would be something else and I would rather take the half a year buffer to get me started on a new position with another company than the stress of constant back and forth in the workplace.

I have already heard back on a few applications I sent out as soon as this started so I think I will land on my feet in no time.


Again, thanks for all the input and views on the matter.


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