New to learning the Finnish language (and this group)

chris · Post by **chris** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:36 am

I am looking for a basic group for newbies to Finnish which requires everything to be written in Suomi. (Sanni is getting quite tired of being a teacher

) I have never learned another language before, but thought that constructing sentences in Finnish would be helpful with grammar as an aide to my learning. Any thoughts? or suggestions of sites etc? Thanks in advance.

**Sponsor:**

PeterF · Post by **PeterF** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:24 am

Welcome Chris...(turvetalao)..
When you say you are new to the Finnish language..how new? days/weeks/months?
There are a couple of links right here in this section for those who want to practice their Finnish with non Finns.
e.g. There is Nail's "discusion" group which meets in a Helsinki pub.
There is also the topic " suomi edistyneille" here members practice there written Finnish...you can try but they are quite advanced students.
See you are in NZ so not many inns to practice with speaking/pronunciation.
Saani and you should practice simple conversations in Finnish for an hour a day.
Also if you are a real beginer stick some of those yellow stickers on to items around the house with their Finnish name on them and get used to gradualy introducing the Finnish names into you conversations.
Also when you go shopping ask the Finnish name for items and get used to using that name when you write the shopping list.
Slowly as you add the right case endings the conversation will devlope e.g. try these in Finnish..( put the soap in the bathroom/ it is on the table in the kitchen/ I need some milk take from the fridge) keep at it and your conversation at home will become more Finglish and eventualy all in Finnish.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:26 am

Why do you Peter call people a 'peat house'? Are you getting organic and ecofriendly?

PeterF · Post by **PeterF** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:58 am

Hank W. wrote:Why do you Peter call people a 'peat house'? Are you getting organic and ecofriendly?

tervetuloa not turvetaloa..one better than Cow Tax..I think I should write a book on my finnish spelling mistakes

Caroline · Post by **Caroline** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:16 pm

chris wrote:I am looking for a basic group for newbies to Finnish which requires everything to be written in Suomi. (Sanni is getting quite tired of being a teacher ) I have never learned another language before, but thought that constructing sentences in Finnish would be helpful with grammar as an aide to my learning. Any thoughts? or suggestions of sites etc? Thanks in advance.

It was also hard for me to feel comfortable speaking Finnish with my husband at first, because his English is so good that it was just easier to have conversations in English. I knew enough Finnish, but understanding and speaking are not the same thing.

I finally told him to keep talking to me in Finnish, regardless of whether I answer in English or Finnish. We now still speak more English than Finnish, but the awkwardness is for the most part gone when we have a conversation in Finnish.

I personally don't think that the "target-language-only" time designated each day works very well (we tried that), because then you might become conditioned to think of the sessions as contrived lessons rather than as normal daily family life. But if you try that and it works, definitely use it.

I am co-authoring a Finnish grammar reference book with a native speaker, and we will need guinea pigs to test out the format and see if the method works. The manuscript isn't done yet; I will announce here when it is complete, but if you'd like to see what we've done so far, contact me at [email protected] .

Good luck!

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:26 pm

Piggybacking - for advanced readers I found an English-Finnish translation book with a vocabulary. Printed in the 1940's I'd suspect it to be slightly more proper text than others. If someone wants, I could copy a few pages and/or lend it out. It has half the passage in one language, half in the other. I'd say its pretty challenging.

Tom and Jerry · Post by **Tom and Jerry** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:43 pm

chris wrote:I am looking for a basic group for newbies to Finnish which requires everything to be written in Suomi. (Sanni is getting quite tired of being a teacher ) I have never learned another language before, but thought that constructing sentences in Finnish would be helpful with grammar as an aide to my learning. Any thoughts? or suggestions of sites etc? Thanks in advance.

The course 'teach yourself Finnish' from Terttu Leney gets good reviews. That is for beginners.

That one can be ordered through amazone.com.

In the beginning it may be better to rely on English anyhow. However, this is a very good, but older course solely in Finnish:

suomea suomeksi, olli nuutinen

This is a good grammar book solely in Finnish, but I don't recommend it, if you are starting to learn Finnish. Though, it is a very good grammar book, if you can read elementary Finnish:

Leila White,
Suomen kielioppia ulkomaalaisille

Then there is also a dictionary in Finnish:
Timo Nurmi, suomen kielen sanakirja ulkomaalaisille

Otherwise you may take the course that your teacher from the basic group advises you to take.

chris · Post by **chris** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:49 am

Thanks all for your input, I shall be putting some of these suggestions into place i think

As for how long have i been learning? off and on for 6 months but having decided to move to Finland next year it becomes a bit more of an imperative.

I am using "Mastering Finnish" (1994) which doesn't seem to have a very strong following from the sites I have looked at. Does anybody know of a site for the comparison of books and learning styles? or am i just being obtuse? (My apologies I just found Kalmistos' posting from May regarding Finnish discussion groups

)

and lastly ( i think i have written quite enough by now) but perhaps most important of all, does anyone have any tips on rolling your rrrs?

Kiitos

Andrew_S · Post by **Andrew_S** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:24 am

Just pretend your a Scotsman.

If you find the "h" in words like lehti difficult, try saying lecht with ch like Scots loch or German nacht. Then soften the ch to an h of English. (Then again maybe CH is harder anyway!).

So you can practise:
"It's a brrraw brrriCHt niCHt in AuCHnamurrrty the niCHt".

But no actual CH sound in Finnish.

English speakers with no French or German often find Finnish "y" and "ö" difficult. A couple of tips to help. To say Finnish "syyn" say "seen" with rounded lips. This feels strange at first but gets the right sort of sound.
Similarly to say "ö" say e of red with lips rounded. Even closer is pure vowel of Scots "hame" (home) with lips rounded (so you will get with slack lips "hame" with rounded lips "hööm").

Speaking Finnish you have to move your lips more than in English (must be hard to be a Finnish ventriloquist, does anyone know any?). Keep practicing, preferable with a Finn to correct you.

Hyvää yötä!

Andrew_S · Post by **Andrew_S** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:37 am

Great Spoonerism from Peter!

Got anything on Finnish Spoonerisms, Hank?

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:36 am

Well, in wordplays, as the
"spinster's prayer": 'Anna Onnin tulla ja tunnin olla.'
not a spoonerism, byt wordplays are quite usual, such as:
"tapeworm said":'Toivossa on hyvä elää kun Usko kuoli.'
(Hope and Faith BTW are in Finland male names)

But I think what you are after. Known in Finnish as "Sananmuunnos". There is about 5-page story called "Ollin kurjuus" that is full of... hrm... dirty stuff. Google finds it easy. Try spoonerizing 'Sananmuunnos' and 'Ollin kurjuus' first. (the trick in Finnish is to know the pairable words as they can be apart in the sentence) And then an excerpt:

Pulu jokelsi kauniisti ulkona. Piha oli liukas ja pulu kallistui, mutta pulu ei kaatunut, koska pululla oli kannukset. Lilli taas kupsahti. Myös sällit kupsahtelivat, kun kuului jyskän pamahdus; jossain ammuttiin kuminalleja, vaikka kaikki olivat luulleet nallien olevan Kurikassa Kurikan malleilla. Joka tapauksessa pamauksen vuoksi pulu katosi. Nalleja ei pitäisi säilyttää kuumassa! Metelistä huolimatta Salli asetteli kukkaa ja ihmetteli kuinka paljon kukassa oli millejä. "Ehkä pitäisi antaa Pepsiä kirvoille.", Salli tuumi. Salli tarjosi Ollille kukkia sanoen: "Pistä kassiin kukkanen kallis tai suksi kukkaan!" Olli heitti Sallin kukat Maijan pihalle ja huusi: "Anna mieluummin tillin kukkia vai suksinko kuuhun!" Salli oli vihainen nuttunsa likaannuttua, eikä voinut osallistua mallikurssille.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:58 am

chris wrote: does anyone have any tips on rolling your rrrs?

I wouldn't know. I have a speech fault in Finnish. Can't say my 'rr' plopelly. But I am (hopefully) not quite as plrlrlrlonounced as the left alliance madame chairman.

Caroline · Post by **Caroline** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:34 pm

and lastly ( i think i have written quite enough by now) but perhaps most important of all, does anyone have any tips on rolling your rrrs?

Well, I don't know if this tip will be useful if you haven't had this kind of background, but Finnish seems to be much easier to learn for people who have had musical training on woodwind instruments, such as flute, clarinette, piccolo, etc. This is because the oral muscles used to play such instruments are the same ones used to pronounce the Finnish alphabet and syllables- including the rolled "R". It's something to do with forcing a lot of air out while keeping your tongue near the roof of your mouth.

eashton · Post by **eashton** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:06 pm

chris wrote:Thanks all for your input, I shall be putting some of these suggestions into place i think :) As for how long have i been learning? off and on for 6 months but having decided to move to Finland next year it becomes a bit more of an imperative.

I am using "Mastering Finnish" (1994) which doesn't seem to have a very strong following from the sites I have looked at. Does anybody know of a site for the comparison of books and learning styles? or am i just being obtuse? (My apologies I just found Kalmistos' posting from May regarding Finnish discussion groups :oops: )

and lastly ( i think i have written quite enough by now) but perhaps most important of all, does anyone have any tips on rolling your rrrs?

Kiitos

I have found that Finn Talk, http://www.finn-guild.org/english/infoc ... tance.html, published by the Finn Guild is outstanding since it comes with CDs and covers both the written and the spoken Finnish forms side-by-side along with cultural blurbs that most books don't cover [ and it's accurate :) ].

Also, there is a new book out, Mitä Kuuluu?, published by Finn Lectura [ you can order them via their web site http://www.finnlectura.fi/ just click on the UK flag ]. http://194.211.149.18/FMPro?-db=tuote.f ... .htm&-find

There is a CD that goes with the book and it's outstanding for helping you learn to hear words and hear them correctly, especially with regard to duration. I've had trouble mostly hearing Finnish so I have found this book particularly valuable.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:22 pm

As I always ay, you have the wrong impression of the alphabet...

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