am I forgetting anything?

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kmboll
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 5:45 pm

am I forgetting anything?

Post by kmboll » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:36 am

I think I'm ready to move to Finland in 6 weeks.....

I've got the paperwork ready to apply for residency,
sold my house,
selling all my belongings,
registered for an intensive Finnish course
got my CV ready,
got the plane ticket,
still have to ship the motorcycle.

what else?......Any advice as to other things I should do before going? :shock:



am I forgetting anything?

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superiorinferior
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Location: Helsinki

Re: am I forgetting anything?

Post by superiorinferior » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:25 am

kmboll wrote:I think I'm ready to move to Finland in 6 weeks.....

I've got the paperwork ready to apply for residency,
sold my house,
selling all my belongings,
registered for an intensive Finnish course
got my CV ready,
got the plane ticket,
still have to ship the motorcycle.

what else?......Any advice as to other things I should do before going? :shock:
Pray to sweet Jesus.

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vampe
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:56 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia.

Re: am I forgetting anything?

Post by vampe » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:13 pm

superiorinferior wrote:
kmboll wrote:I think I'm ready to move to Finland in 6 weeks.....

I've got the paperwork ready to apply for residency,
sold my house,
selling all my belongings,
registered for an intensive Finnish course
got my CV ready,
got the plane ticket,
still have to ship the motorcycle.

what else?......Any advice as to other things I should do before going? :shock:
Pray to sweet Jesus.
Haha . I've done about the same , apart from the planeticket & finnish course. :)
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daryl
Posts: 523
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Re: am I forgetting anything?

Post by daryl » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:11 pm

kmboll wrote:I think I'm ready to move to Finland in 6 weeks.....

I've got the paperwork ready to apply for residency,
sold my house,
selling all my belongings,
registered for an intensive Finnish course
got my CV ready,
got the plane ticket,
still have to ship the motorcycle.

what else?......Any advice as to other things I should do before going? :shock:
You don't say where you are coming from, but you talk about "applying for residency" so I assume that it's not an EEA Member State.

You don't state the grounds for your residence permit application, but it appears that you intend to immigrate permanently. You refer to your CV, which suggests that you don't have a job.

Depending on the precise answers to these questions, you may be overoptimistic in assuming that immigration clearance can be arranged in 6 weeks.

Depending on what part of Finland you are coming to, the biking season begins in May and ends in November. You will have to investigate driving license and insurance requirements.

If you intend to live in Finland permanently, then the "intensive" Finnish language course is probably not a wise move. You will be exposed to the Finnish language to the point of mental exhaustion anyway, and the pace of input on an "intensive" course is likely to be counterproductive. In many ways the course would be much more effective if spread over several weeks, thereby enabling you to practice what you have learned outside of the classroom to achieve meaningful personal objectives. There is little point in spending hours of classroom time role playing how to buy things in shops when you can simply walk into the nearest shop and do it for real.

One further point about Finnish language learning: "Finnish as a foreign language" is a very new subject in the adult education world, and there is still a strong tendency to assume that it must be taught by professional language specialists. These specialists are somehow "qualified" to teach Finnish because they understand the "nuts and bolts" of the language, and they tend to assume that the language can and should be learned by an academic study of these nuts and bolts (however cunningly disguised). You will meet many, many disillusioned victims of this mistaken teaching approach.

Depending on the type of work that you do, you would be well advised to consult the appropriate trade union for preliminary advice regarding the track record of any employer who offers you a job. There are still a lot of sharks out there.

daryl
Wo ai Zhong-guo ren

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:21 pm

IIRC, Daryl, we have a case of a serious "hot blonde syndrome" ;)

Though I'd waited for the paperwork & job before selling my stuff, but I am lacking the "inner blonde" in me.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

sammy
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Re: am I forgetting anything?

Post by sammy » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:41 pm

daryl wrote:If you intend to live in Finland permanently, then the "intensive" Finnish language course is probably not a wise move. You will be exposed to the Finnish language to the point of mental exhaustion anyway, and the pace of input on an "intensive" course is likely to be counterproductive. In many ways the course would be much more effective if spread over several weeks, thereby enabling you to practice what you have learned outside of the classroom to achieve meaningful personal objectives. There is little point in spending hours of classroom time role playing how to buy things in shops when you can simply walk into the nearest shop and do it for real.
That is very true, however I wouldn't necessarily consider an intensive course such a bad idea - if you do not know anything about Finnish, then surely it can act as a good springboard. But just do remember that, as Daryl said, real life is the best teacher eventually. It depends, of course. If your learning processes are well tuned to strong initial bombardment in a classroom, then an intensive course may be an excellent idea. And I suppose you can quit the course if you start feeling dizzy...

Anyway, welcome :)

kmboll
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Post by kmboll » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:02 pm

you're right Hank, I've caught the HBS......maybe Finland can cure me of that :wink:

I'm coming from the US and applying for residency based on cohabitation. We meet all of the requirements so hopefully it won't be a problem. Selling my stuff would be much harder once I'm in Finland and we have to come now because my gf's visa is up. Ideally we would have been able to apply before moving and wait for a decision, but that just wasn't possible in our situation. Hopefully it doesn't come back to bite us. I can stay in Finland as long as the application is processing so 6 weeks shouldn't be a problem (although I didn't understand the 6 weeks because I can stay for 3 months as a visitor)

Drivers License- I can drive on my American license as a visitor, but I will be trying to get a Finnish one ASAP because I'm sure there will be problems getting insurance on the bike without it. I also assume that I won't be able to get the license until I get residency so the bike might be parked for a while.

Intensive course - Daryl, you are the first person that has told me NOT to take as many classes I can! I guess if nothing else it will give me somewhere that I have to be 3 days/week and give me something to do for the first month. And like sammy said, I can always quit if my brain explodes.

Job - I am a mechanical engineer, are there trade unions for engineers? I don't believe that we have them here in the US for engineers. Here unions seem to be mainly reserved for more manual labor jobs.

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:15 pm

D'oh says Engineer Union

Now theres a bit of a pecking order between a "diploma-engineer"(M.Sc) and a regular "engineer" (B.Sc)... ;)
Last edited by Hank W. on Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

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daryl
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Post by daryl » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:58 pm

kmboll wrote: I'm coming from the US and applying for residency based on cohabitation. We meet all of the requirements so hopefully it won't be a problem.
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

If I had 5 euros for every time I've heard such optimism about the Finnish immigration system... :)
kmboll wrote: Selling my stuff would be much harder once I'm in Finland and we have to come now because my gf's visa is up. Ideally we would have been able to apply before moving and wait for a decision, but that just wasn't possible in our situation.
OK - Now I have a clearer idea of what you were saying in the first post about plane tickets and six weeks.

You are going to file your application after arriving. You are not simply hoping to get a decision before you leave.
kmboll wrote: Hopefully it doesn't come back to bite us. I can stay in Finland as long as the application is processing so 6 weeks shouldn't be a problem (although I didn't understand the 6 weeks because I can stay for 3 months as a visitor)
There is some slightly dangerous confusion here. You will not be entering Finland "as a visitor", but with the intention of staying permanently. The visa exemption agreement between Finland and the USA does not cover such cases. If you arrive in Finland on a direct flight from outside of the Schengen States and are then confronted by a Finnish border guard, what will you state as the purpose of your stay in Finland? Please bear in mind that it is a criminal offence to give false information to a public authority.

Please especially note the important distinction between the terms "visa" (permission for a short, temporary stay, e.g. for business or tourism) and "residence permit" (permission to stay for a longer period or indefinitely).

To answer the question that I posed above, if you are challenged by a Finnish border guard, then you should state the truth about your arrival, and if necessary allow the border guard to see the application papers that you have already prepared. You will then be allowed to enter Finland, as this clearly falls within the discretion of the border guard and is bureaucratically a great deal easier than trying to turn you back.
kmboll wrote: Intensive course - Daryl, you are the first person that has told me NOT to take as many classes I can! I guess if nothing else it will give me somewhere that I have to be 3 days/week and give me something to do for the first month. And like sammy said, I can always quit if my brain explodes.
There are two points here:

1. Value for money in language learning, and
2. The demotivating effect of inept formal instruction

If you have enough money for 40 lessons, then you will learn far more by spreading those lessons over 10 weeks than by taking them all in one week. So-called "intensive" language courses only really make any sense at all when they occur in countries where the target language is not widely used and where there is some reason for haste. Such a course makes some sense if you take it stateside because you are preparing for some important business event in Finland, especially if a wealthy employer is footing the bill.

Never underestimate the capacity of an inept instructor to damage your ability and motivation to learn. I can virtually guarantee, for example, that your intensive course instructor will entirely ignore the global phonetic features of the Finnish language (i.e. the natural "rhythm" of the language), even though this is an absolutely essential aspect of learning spoken Finnish and the ideal point to tackle this is at the begining. That is just for starters. Many instructors begin by telling their students how difficult the language is. This is simply rubbish (how can the instructor know this about each and every student?), but the myth persists.
kmboll wrote:Job - I am a mechanical engineer, are there trade unions for engineers? I don't believe that we have them here in the US for engineers. Here unions seem to be mainly reserved for more manual labor jobs.
There are unions for just about every kind of employee in Finland. Four out of every five employees belong to a union. The right union for you will depend on your qualifications and on the kind of work that you do. Hank was sort of hinting at this with his remark about MSc and Bsc engineers.

In any case, I advised you to check with the union that is active in the industry of any employer offering you a job. The union should at least be able to advise you whether this employer has a good reputation, and perhaps put you in touch with a contact at the firm. This gives you an important headstart.

daryl
Wo ai Zhong-guo ren

kmboll
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 5:45 pm

Post by kmboll » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:58 pm

daryl wrote: If I had 5 euros for every time I've heard such optimism about the Finnish immigration system... :)
....you seem less than confident..... :)
daryl wrote: If you arrive in Finland on a direct flight from outside of the Schengen States and are then confronted by a Finnish border guard..
I am actually going Minneapolis->Amsterdam->Helsinki. So I am planning on being interviewed to enter the EU in AMS. I've debated what to tell them, (since they won't necessarily know the Finnish laws) and finally decided on telling the truth and making sure I have paperwork from http://www.uvi.fi showing the rules and that I can apply at the police when I arrive.

daryl wrote: 1. Value for money in language learning, and
I've been debating this for the last 1.5 years as I spent $2000 at the university studying Finnish. Probably would have learned the same in 2 months of immersion but hopefully knowing some of the rules and a good base will help me learn quicker. Also, I think there will be some value in showing prospective employeres that I am actively trying to learn Finnish.
daryl wrote: Hank was sort of hinting at this with his remark about MSc and Bsc engineers.
I realize it's an issue that I only have a BSc. I'm hoping to overcome this with work experience. Wish me luck........(on that same note, I get the feeling that work experience is not as valued as the degree. Even the CV concentrates more on what degrees you have rather than work/project experience :evil: )

Thanks for all the questions and help. These are exactly the types of issues I wanted to talk through.


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