Who will be the Olympic stars for Finland?

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Mark I.
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Post by Mark I. » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:24 am

otyikondo wrote: Says quite a lot for the current state of the NHL.
There are no NHL stars in other teams? :roll:

It says more about how difficult it is for big hockey nations with a lot of individual NHL stars to get their act together. People easily fool themselves into thinking like "adding together individual players NHL points sums up how good a team is" or like a team full of NHL stars has to be great. There are delicate factors like how those players will play together, some psychological factors (which can be tricky), etc. There are many examples of "star teams" which have failed miserably - it's like they'v got into some bad spiral. (One can also wonder, are there some "invicible workers" behind their regular team success, and those stars just collect the fame.)

Now, USA fell their boots on, as they managed to put on a tight fight at the end. Canada failed more, being unable to score in the last three games. But I can recall even more drastic examples, like "a Russian dream team" some years ago lost miserably all of their WC games at home tournament, even to B-class teams. Checs have also had their "nightmare tournament".

It would be more realistic for North Americans not to be so sure about their own superiority.



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Argan

Post by Argan » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:39 am

Naturally Markku Uusipaavalniemi and his curling team.

You might want to check out the japanese female curling team too. :P

Rosamunda
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Post by Rosamunda » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:15 am

otyikondo wrote:
Of course this will KILL NBC. Nobody was watching there anyway,

.
...wrong, I was. Live coverage on Network USA (???) not NBC. The Finns got lots of praise ACTUALLY, general opinion was they are playing brilliantly.... except for Ruutu (sp???) who is obviously The Bad Boy in the NHL, nobody has a nice word to say about him.

Hope we'll get the semis live tomorrow.

But you're right. Nobody seems to be much interested in the Olympics over here (but then it's 85F on Fort Myers Beach and a new series of American Idol just started, or so I understand). The ice skating is the only thing that anyone is talking about after the US couple came silver in the dancing.

otyikondo
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Post by otyikondo » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:00 am

MHH wrote:
otyikondo wrote: Says quite a lot for the current state of the NHL.
There are no NHL stars in other teams? :roll:

It says more about how difficult it is for big hockey nations with a lot of individual NHL stars to get their act together. People easily fool themselves into thinking like "adding together individual players NHL points sums up how good a team is" or like a team full of NHL stars has to be great. There are delicate factors like how those players will play together, some psychological factors (which can be tricky), etc. There are many examples of "star teams" which have failed miserably - it's like they'v got into some bad spiral. (One can also wonder, are there some "invicible workers" behind their regular team success, and those stars just collect the fame.)

Now, USA fell their boots on, as they managed to put on a tight fight at the end. Canada failed more, being unable to score in the last three games. But I can recall even more drastic examples, like "a Russian dream team" some years ago lost miserably all of their WC games at home tournament, even to B-class teams. Checs have also had their "nightmare tournament".

It would be more realistic for North Americans not to be so sure about their own superiority.
I take your point about "dream-teams", but...

My point, and I thought it would have been more obvious, is that these days the NHL is no different from the English Premiership, in that it is a league that depends very much indeed on foreign imports and the scoring/saving abilities of people from countries like Finland or Slovakia.
The parallel with the English situation is clear: Arsenal turned out the other night with a team that contained not ONE English player. The English Cup final played a few years ago between Chelsea and Middlesborough kicked off with 17 or 18 foreign-born players on the field.

The fact that Finland (pop. c. 5 million) can stuff both Canada and the United States, one of these being the mother country of hockey and the other being considerably larger and with a long, long tradition in the game, and the fact that Slovakia (pop. even smaller) can do the same (until they met the folks next door who put them in their place) suggests that

a) the sport over in North America is suffering from a weakening of the gene-pool after preferring to attract foreign stars
b) that for all the Americans' much-trumpeted "patriotism", they often do not gel as a team when representing their country.

Another slightly disturbing trend is that the malaise in b) above is starting to spread to other countries. Finland's difficulty in rounding up a goaltender is a case in point, as was the problems of the Russians a few years back. The big rich guys decided they'd rather play golf and protect their livelihood; getting injured playing for that delightful pine and lakes republic 4,000 miles away would not go down well with the employers and would hurt the players in the pocket.

The pattern is just the same in football: the European Champions League is now more important than representing one's country. Clubs try to "protect" their players - their prime resource - from national duties.

"The League", whether the ECL or the Bundesliga or the Premiership or La Liga, has become more important than the nation-state. Youn only have to look at the US teams that regularly turned out for the IIHF World Championships for this. Often they were college kids or farm-players.

otyikondo
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Post by otyikondo » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:46 am

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~jpsuuron/mursu/


curlingmaa.mp3 (2.7Mb)

Requires some knowledge of Finnish, Finnish culture, and curling terminology. :)

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Majava
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Post by Majava » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:35 pm

The pattern is just the same in football: the European Champions League is now more important than representing one's country. Clubs try to "protect" their players - their prime resource - from national duties.
Clubs, yes, but players still have the wish to be playing for the national team. Sure, an England vs. Andorra friendly is not making these players to line up for their "duty", but all of the real qualifiers are still important and I haven't heard of many players whose ultimate goal would not be to star at a World or European Championships tournament.

Not knowing much about ice hockey, can that als be said about the hockey players?

edit: forgot the not...
Last edited by Majava on Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Remember-you can't beam through a force field. So, don't try it. "(James T. Kirk)

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ajdias
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Post by ajdias » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:13 pm

This is funny:
Concerned Finns have been contacting the Language Planning Department en masse, asking questions about a Finnish translation and spelling.
:lol: link

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sinikettu
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Post by sinikettu » Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:55 pm

Silver for Tanja..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_s ... stm#alpine
American Julia Mancuso stormed to gold in the women's giant slalom at a snowy Sestriere.

Finland's Tanja Poutiainen was second, 0.67 secs back, with Sweden's Anna Ottosson third, 1.14 secs adrift.

otyikondo
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Post by otyikondo » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:00 pm

@#$% amazing run. She's hardly been able to put one ski in front of the other all season and now she does THAT!

Tremendous!

And I wouldn't have put a dog out in weather like that. Let alone left the bar to go skiing.

Big respect.

Poutiainen takes giant slalom silver

sammy
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Post by sammy » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:16 pm

otyikondo wrote:@#$% amazing run. She's hardly been able to put one ski in front of the other all season and now she does THAT!

Tremendous!

And I wouldn't have put a dog out in weather like that. Let alone left the bar to go skiing.

Big respect.

Poutiainen takes giant slalom silver
Hooray with whacking great and polished bronze knobs on!

- The main thing, of course, is that the Swedish skier only managed to slalom herself to the third pos. :lol::lol::lol:

otyikondo
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Post by otyikondo » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:27 pm

sammy wrote:
otyikondo wrote:@#$% amazing run. She's hardly been able to put one ski in front of the other all season and now she does THAT!

Tremendous!

And I wouldn't have put a dog out in weather like that. Let alone left the bar to go skiing.

Big respect.

Poutiainen takes giant slalom silver
Hooray with whacking great and polished bronze knobs on!

- The main thing, of course, is that the Swedish skier only managed to slalom herself to the third pos. :lol::lol::lol:
Ottosson had slightly easier conditions, but it was still a great performance from her. She was fastest of the lot on the second run. I'd sooner she won something than Pärson, who's already got just about everything, at least now she's won an Olympic gold.

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Post by sammy » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:35 pm

otyikondo wrote:Ottosson had slightly easier conditions, but it was still a great performance from her. She was fastest of the lot on the second run. I'd sooner she won something than Pärson, who's already got just about everything, at least now she's won an Olympic gold.
Actually I just about managed to see a short glimpse of the whole competition, so I only witnessed the gold run by the US Mancuso. I was just gleeful of the Swedish bronze by way of principle... (ie not to be taken seriously :wink:)

otyikondo
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Post by otyikondo » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:44 pm

sammy wrote:
otyikondo wrote:Ottosson had slightly easier conditions, but it was still a great performance from her. She was fastest of the lot on the second run. I'd sooner she won something than Pärson, who's already got just about everything, at least now she's won an Olympic gold.
Actually I just about managed to see a short glimpse of the whole competition, so I only witnessed the gold run by the US Mancuso. I was just gleeful of the Swedish bronze by way of principle... (ie not to be taken seriously :wink:)
Yes, and I took it that way. And I don't think anyone saw MUCH of it. Visibility was about two arms' lengths.

But I'm really delighted for Tanja. She's had a totally sh!te season so far, and nobody expected this.

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Post by otyikondo » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:01 pm

Well, the curlers came up short. Not their best day at work, but all credit to the Canadians, who didn't put a foot wrong - especially that Nichols, who is a total machine. Him and Howard. The other two were practically passengers.

Still, they did everyone proud. Who'd have thought it, eh? Stuffed everybody in the tournament who mattered. Stuffed the Brits twice for good measure.

But I guess Uusis ain't going to be Sportsman of the Year any more. Shame. It'll probably be some frigging wrestler again. :twisted:

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daryl
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Post by daryl » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:35 pm

otyikondo wrote:Well, the curlers came up short. Not their best day at work, but all credit to the Canadians, who didn't put a foot wrong - especially that Nichols, who is a total machine. Him and Howard. The other two were practically passengers.

Still, they did everyone proud. Who'd have thought it, eh? Stuffed everybody in the tournament who mattered. Stuffed the Brits twice for good measure.

But I guess Uusis ain't going to be Sportsman of the Year any more. Shame. It'll probably be some frigging wrestler again. :twisted:
Did anybody notice in today's Hesari that the entire Finnish curling team live in Hyvinkää and play for the same club just a few stops down the track in Oulunkylä?

Now back in 1966 we claimed that the irons had won the world cup (both goalscorers and the captain playing in the final, with Mooro elected player of the tournament), so I think Oulunkylä Curling can justifiably claim that the Olympic silver medal is as much theirs as Finland's.

Uusipaavalniemi - superb name for foreign sports commentators!

daryl
Wo ai Zhong-guo ren


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