Swedish parts of Finland
Language politics are fascinating. Of course, if you are going to ONLY live in the Swedish speaking areas OR have a wider reach into Swe/Den/Nor then Swedish might be for you, but don't ignore Finnish. It is certainly a useful skillset as well (and allows you to join in the sneering at the Swedes or respond when some donkey says something rude about you in Finnish when you are speaking Swedish to a friend at Tampere Station (been there, got the t shirt and the shock from them when they realised that one in the party could also Finnish and understood their juvenile taunts about Swedish homos (!). Quite interesting when the pair where man and woman.
It also helps to know some Finnish when your washing machine breaks and you have to ring the huolto guys to get them to come and fix it, and then they rabbit on about the technical details of the machine, offer you a replacement one, say that the axel is broken as well as the bearings are worn and you might get it back on Wednesday. Then it is really helpful to know some Finnish.
but you know, I can understand finns who dont like to speak swedish with other people and the fact that foreigners, even in Swedish parts, should learn Finnish - just in respect to the country they are in!
I'm Polish and I can imagine the situation if we had any other official language there, let's say Russian for example. And there would be places where people would speak ONLY Russian. But they'd be minority (significant!). Wouldn't I, Polish speaking person, in Polish speaking country, be mad at someone who'd speak only Russian and require me to speak this language that I don't like (cos of many factors, but mostly historical - same as with Swedes and Finns)? I'd even demand these Russian-speaking people from Russian-speaking parts to speak MY language, cos it's the first official and the most important - and I don't give a !"#¤% if they speak Russian with each other!
Well, that's a theoretical situation. But I hope you'll get the point. And imagine the same bout ur own country - probably will help.
I'm Polish and I can imagine the situation if we had any other official language there, let's say Russian for example. And there would be places where people would speak ONLY Russian. But they'd be minority (significant!). Wouldn't I, Polish speaking person, in Polish speaking country, be mad at someone who'd speak only Russian and require me to speak this language that I don't like (cos of many factors, but mostly historical - same as with Swedes and Finns)? I'd even demand these Russian-speaking people from Russian-speaking parts to speak MY language, cos it's the first official and the most important - and I don't give a !"#¤% if they speak Russian with each other!
Well, that's a theoretical situation. But I hope you'll get the point. And imagine the same bout ur own country - probably will help.
Und die jahre ziehen ins Land und wir trinken immer noch ohne Verstand...
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jessesuomi
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In theory I agree with most all of this however what about the "foriegners" or people who born abroad from Finnish parents? Where do you classify those people? Near my home town there are thousands of Finns, not all of which are native Finnish speakers but many Swedish speaking. These kids born there are Finnish Citizens by birthright according to the government. They may someday come back to Finland and not speak Finnish but Swedish.
When I was taking the basic Finnish class to fill the holes in my ability, 3 years after being in Finland with just a b permit, a man came to the class who was a full Finnish citizen.He spoke no finnish or swedish. Hewas born in the states. He did however recieve all of the benefits of being a citizen including KELA and unemployment money. It kind of sucked really. My family is also from Finland but 5 generations ago so I get no help. None the less it is where my family roots are.
It strikes me odd that alot of Finns tend to forget that they may have family that emmigrated from here to others places but when their offsping want to come back they are shunned.
When I was taking the basic Finnish class to fill the holes in my ability, 3 years after being in Finland with just a b permit, a man came to the class who was a full Finnish citizen.He spoke no finnish or swedish. Hewas born in the states. He did however recieve all of the benefits of being a citizen including KELA and unemployment money. It kind of sucked really. My family is also from Finland but 5 generations ago so I get no help. None the less it is where my family roots are.
It strikes me odd that alot of Finns tend to forget that they may have family that emmigrated from here to others places but when their offsping want to come back they are shunned.
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jessesuomi
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I agree with you with many of them not fitting in. But if they are not fluent in the language they are treated as a foriegner despite the laws. I just think that it is funny in that way. Although they are FULLY Finnish and many have gone on to military duty here, they are often felt not accepted by Finn born here.
But some are a bit much. They do stick out like a tourist and always will. I guess my comment was mor along the lines that Finns tend to think of the circumstances as they see immediate. Not so easily willing to take into account that maybe a Finn was born abroad.
But some are a bit much. They do stick out like a tourist and always will. I guess my comment was mor along the lines that Finns tend to think of the circumstances as they see immediate. Not so easily willing to take into account that maybe a Finn was born abroad.
In Romania we have a Hungarian minority of about 7%, but the country isn't billingual and I think that's somehow understandable, given the context: Swedes in Finland are much more prosperous than Hungarians in Romania, and the many years of Hungarian rule in Transylvania weren't exactly tolerant towards Romanians. Also, the Hungarian population is concentrated in some areas in Transylvania, but they're quite few in the capital, and in other areas.Emi wrote:Wouldn't I, Polish speaking person, in Polish speaking country, be mad at someone who'd speak only Russian and require me to speak this language that I don't like ...
We have a law that says billingual writings are required if 20% of the inhabitants of a locality belong to one minority. 5% is way too little I think - if that's the limit in Finland. OTOH, Swedes (or Swedish speaking Finns) are not like some Hungarians, who are always whining about treaties concluded dozens of years ago, and about the great country they had (even if they were only 30% of its population).
Disclaimer: I've nothing agains Hungarians, "some Hungarians" doesn't cover all - unfortunately, quite a few of them are politicians.
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Hank W.
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Ah, but you forget the Finnish things that rule the society. ENVY. Someone who has been abroad, born abroad, is "rich" and "privileged" and "hasn't been here suffering"...jessesuomi wrote:Although they are FULLY Finnish and many have gone on to military duty here, they are often felt not accepted by Finn born here.
You need to get inside a Finnish head for that.Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
.I think this same attitude can be seen in the animosity of some Finnish speaking Finns against Swedish speaking Finns. Lots of "better people" and how we are sooo rich and privileged. I've seen some posts in that vein here lately, too (yes, mostly in jest, but still not fun to read).Hank W. wrote:Ah, but you forget the Finnish things that rule the society. ENVY. Someone who has been abroad, born abroad, is "rich" and "privileged" and "hasn't been here suffering"...
Yes, there are families with "old money", but most Swedish speaking Finns have traditionally been farmers and fishermen, and many still are, which is not surprising when living along the coast, and they sure weren't/aren't rich! And I'm still trying to figure out what privileges I'm supposed to have... and where the heck is my silver spoon and giant inheritance?!?