My situation

[Däni]

Hello everyone. This is my first post at the Finland Forum. I have been visiting here for some time as a guest, and have finally made the move to register. It is a friendly place, and I hope to get on well with you all.

I am currently living in England (British citizen) but would like to move to Finland to be with my boyfriend. I went last year for a visit, and will be going again this Summer. It has been something we have discussed a lot, and will continue to discuss. We are not going to rush into it, and it may be a few years until I make the move. I have some questions and things I would like verified, as the process seems complicated.

As an EU citizen, I can live and work in Finland for three months without having to register anything. Though by the end of the three months, I would need to register my intent to stay at the local police station. After doing that, I will be considered to be residing in Finland until further notice. After four years I would become a permenant resident. Is this all correct? Is there anything else I would need to do?

I currently have one more year of study here. By the Summer of 2007, I will have a BA (Hons) Education Studies. This will make me a qualified teacher. I will need to have this qualification recognised by the National Board of Education (OPH). As this is a fairly common qualification, has anyone here had experience of having it formally recognised by the OPH?

If my boyfriend and I were to get a registered partnership, would that automatically give me Finnish citizenship? Is there a choice to accept/decline Finnish citizenship in this situation? If I were to become a Finnish citizen, would I have to do military/civil service? If I became a Finnish citizen after the age of thirty, would I have to do the service then, or would I be exempt?

Yes, there are many questions, I know. Moving country is a big thing to do, and I need to be sure of everything before I even start to plan it. Any help and assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

Däni.

[Hank W.]

would that automatically give me Finnish citizenship?

no,
you can eventually apply for one, and the requirements are less stricter for spouses

If I were to become a Finnish citizen, would I have to do military/civil service?

Double citizens can petition for an exemption waiver easily, and who knows what it'll be in the future.

If I became a Finnish citizen after the age of thirty

They really won't bother with anyone over 28.

About the OPH, I think they might not take it 1:1 but maybe require some further qualificatons taken here, depending quite much what kind of teacher/tenure/age group/level school it is. Like a 5th grade homeroom has totally different requirements say than a vocational school IT teacher trying to get some 17-year olds not to sniff airfix in class.

Moving country is a big thing to do, and I need to be sure of everything before I even start to plan it.

First time I've heard that from someone with a HBS - usually they ask all this *after* they jump off Ryanair

And before you ask, yes, you do need to learn Finnish.

[Däni]

Hello Hank W. Thanks for replying to my topic.

To summarise (for my own benefit): Having a registered partnership would not give me Finnish citizenship automatically. But I would be able to get it upon application.

I am still unsure whether or not I would have to do military/civil service upon becoming a Finnish citizen. I am twenty now, and will not be moving into the country until I'm twenty-two at the very earliest.

They really won't bother with anyone over 28.

I mentioned the age of thirty, as I thought that legally, any citizens that are thirty or older cannot be made to do military or civil service.

About the OPH, I think they might not take it 1:1 but maybe require some further qualificatons taken here, depending quite much what kind of teacher/tenure/age group/level school it is. Like a 5th grade homeroom has totally different requirements say than a vocational school IT teacher trying to get some 17-year olds not to sniff airfix in class.

I am currently a teaching assistant at a junior school (ages 7-11). This is the age group I would want to work with. I would not want to be a teacher in Finland until I have more experience there. I would like to continue as a teaching assistant, but still be recognised as being a qualified teacher, as I know that qualifications are important to employers.

First time I've heard that from someone with a HBS - usually they ask all this *after* they jump off Ryanair

Well, I don't know what HBS is, but I do know that a lot of people will make the move without doing any real preparation before-hand. I do not want to do this. I want to be fully prepared, and know mostly what to do and expect.

And before you ask, yes, you do need to learn Finnish.

Yes, of course. I didn't need to ask that one!

[gon2o]

Well, I don't know what HBS is,....

Harvard Business School

[Hank W.]

Well, I don't know what HBS is,

Oh, its short for Hot Blonde Syndrome

[Däni]

Well, I don't know what HBS is,

Oh, its short for Hot Blonde Syndrome

I wouldn't say I have this "HBS", as that article describes a person almost the polar opposite to myself. The only similarity being that my partner lives in Finland.

[Hank W.]

As I said, it is about the first case I've met. I think I need to write to the "Lancet" on this

I wouldn't say you are the only one, but you may still find your "inner blonde" icefishing in a horizontal sleetstorm a couple of years from now.

You're on a pretty good path already; the residence/citizenship you can read from http://www.uvi.fi and stuff about licences from http://www.poliisi.fi - then theres a few practical things as in "good to do before you move" you by no doubt will make a list. Most all stuff has been answered a couple of times so search is your friend. Though do remember - new stuff does pop up every now and then, like these days you need to have a police certificate to work with kids etc.

You've found Eligibility to work as a teacher in Finland on the obfuscated OPH pages I hope? That goes through the credentials thing. The reason is as these are county jobs, they are "offices" as in tenures and for this kind of an "office" getting the job as a 'qualified' teacher vs. 'unqualified' teacher makes a whole lot difference in the pay. So getting to teach and getting paid to teach are two things here in question.

[neil]

Out of interest (hope you dont mind me asking), but what benefit would citizenship bring you that you wouldn't already have (except voting in presidential elections, of course).

[Däni]

Hank W. - Is there such a thing as an unqualified teacher? I would have thought that all teachers should be qualified, as they are here. Anyway, after completing my studies, I should be a qualified teacher here. As I said earlier, I would need this to be recognised by the OPH in order to teach in Finland.

However, I do not want to go straight into teaching in Finland. I would rather continue my current role as teaching assistant, which would give me more experience of the Finnish education system and practices, before actually teaching myself. This would enable me to be more confident in the role, employers would like my prior experience of Finnish education, and I will have learned a lot more of the language by then, too.

neil - I ask about the Finnish citizenship mainly because of the military/civil service. Finnish citizens have to do this, but I could not find any rules regarding foreigners becoming citizens. All I have found is that citizens over thirty that have not done service do not have to do it.

[Hank W.]

Hank W. - Is there such a thing as an unqualified teacher?

Yes, I quite agree. Though in Finland a lot of substitute teachers are "formally unqualified". Its a technical term as per the "office".

And I think Neil was more after "why would you want to become a Finnish Citizen in the first place". As really in the EU it doesn't make such a difference any more. There are of course some upsides, but the residence within the EU is pretty much the same regardless of citizenship. As for the downsides, regarding the military stuff it is definitely "on the safe side" if one is below 30. http://www.mil.fi/varusmies/expatriate.pdf - (never mind that much the "expatriate"). Then again after being and expat from the UK you start getting in the limbo from there.

[Rosamunda]

I do not know of any primary schools (teaching in English) that employ teacher assistants. There is no private sector education to speak of (excepting the International School of Helsinki) and state schools do not have the budgets to employ teacher assistants.

These are the possibilities that I am aware of:

- teaching "upkeep" English on the national mother-tongue language programme. This programme exists to offer immigrant children or returning Finns the possibility to maintain their first language. There is no requirement for teachers on this programme to be qualified but obviously a qualification and or experience is a plus. When I was working on this programme as an English language teacher I had 8 teaching hours per week at roughly 23 euro/hour. These are yearly contracts so you have to re-apply for your own job each year. Your employer would be the koulutuskeskus (LEA) of the municipality where you work.

- supply teaching. There is very little demand for English language supply teachers but it can supplement your income (especially during a flu epidemic ). The rates are approx the same as the language programme above. Again you would have to register with the LEA and you would be paid by them.

- day-care. There is an increasing number of (private) English language day-care (päiväkoti) schools in Finland. Kids aged 4-7 years. Again they do not necessarily require you to be a qualified teacher but you are more likely to get a job if you are. I don't think they pay as much as the public sector programmes. I have never worked in a nursery school so can't really say. It is a good place to get some experience though. Finland is a small country and once people get to know you, it is much easier to find a job! I know a teacher (not qualified) who started working in a nursery school and is now teaching in primary.

- after school clubs. Many schools run after school clubs, some are in English. This requires organising activity programmes both indoors and outdoors including the supervision of homework. These are usually organised by the same private companies that run the day-care.

In Finland the primary school teachers qualification is more like the "Professeur des Ecoles" in France in that it is highly specialised... unlike the PGCE, M.Ed or a BA (Ed) which are not so age-group specific. To be quite honest I think it is unlikely that your BA will give you a Finnish equivalent (the Finnish programme is considered to be a Masters degree). This would not stop you teaching in an English language school but it will affect your pay (a lot) and mean that you are stuck with a yearly contract (no tenure) at least for the first few years. I know teachers with B.Sc (maths) + M.Ed who cannot get on local pay scales and are not even allowed to teach in sixth form (lukio). Hopefully the Bologna Agreement will change things a bit but don't hold your breath.

I think you will find work though.... there is quite a high turnover among ex-pat teachers, many only stay in Finland for a couple of years and then they move on.

If you have more specific questions about schools in the Espoo/Helsinki region then PM me.

[Däni]

Many thanks for your reply, penelope. You seem to be very knowledgable in this area, so I appreciate your time and help.

You mention that primary schools teaching in English do not employ teaching assistants. How about primary schools teaching primarily in Finnish? How are children with special needs supported in their learning at school? Do they not have a teaching assistant (or something similar with a different name)?

Teaching "upkeep" English sounds like a good option for me to start with, while I am still learning the Finnish language. I am also quite skilled in music, and could give music lessons to children to suppliment my income.

I recognise that education in Finland is completely free, and so many more people have qualifications. Though will an employer recognise that my degree, although not as fancy as a Finnish person may have, was earned in a country where I had to spend thousands of pounds to get it? I would hope that would show dedication.

It isn't very heartening to hear about highly qualified teachers struggling to find work, and not being let onto local pay scales. However, people do manage it, and after networking and getting to know a few people, I would hope to find something. A backup plan will be made as well, of course.

[Hank W.]

I recognise that education in Finland is completely free,

I hope you then can appreciate from your first Finnish tax sheet how much "free" stuff costs for the taxpayer. They're coming this week It is true tuition itself does not cost the student while studying, but if you look at the teachers' payscales now for all that "free" education you are expected to work for "free" as well - and pay hefty taxes on top.

Though will an employer recognise that my degree, although not as fancy as a Finnish person may have, was earned in a country where I had to spend thousands of pounds to get it?

I'm afraid that is all too easily interpreted as "buying" a degree vs. "gaining" one with hard work and talent. Its no use mentioning money to Finns, its a 'poor country' stigma we got here. On the list of money-related things like mentioning a former salary, the size of house you had and the kind of car you drove"before moving to Finland" that'll get a somewhat kneejerk reaction "why didn't you then stay there"...

[watsonwatson]

Much of what's written is true. However in my case

1. I'm teaching in one of the oldest and most prestigious lukios in Finland. I do have an excellent CV though (including writing a best selling A Level textbook) so that probably helped.
2. After 14 months of fighting I'm now being paid the same as a Finn- "I'm qualified". This involved lots of phone calls letters, and eventually threats (European Court of Human Rights). It also cost me 160€ in fees to the Finnish Board of Education to have my UK based qualifications approved. So the moral of the story is that it is possible.

My advice would be to do a mass emailing (CV + letter of app) of every school, poly and university in the land. Don't be afraid of teaching at university level. In my opinion the real standard of education in Finland is way below all the hype you read about it. The biggest joke is a Finnish "Masters degree", which is really about HND Level.

Do all your applications from England without giving up your job. Do not move to Finland without a job. Your chances of getting a decent job whilst you are here in Finland are very low. If you can get work it will tend to be the low grade, low paid work that Penny described.

Despite all this I'm off in the other direction back to the UK at the end of this academic year. Life here in Finland can be pretty tough. There are not many foreigners living here and that has influenced the attitudes of too many people here. If you have a job, you've "stolen" it off a Finn. If you don't have a job, you're a parasite living off the back of the Finnish tax payer. No win!

My solution would be to try to get your other half to move to the UK. He will find it easier to get a job over here than you would in Finland. Acceptance by the local population wouldn't be an issue either. In general Brits are quite curious about Finland. All I've ever had from Finns is the question

"So, what do you think about Finland?"

[Rosamunda]

This might sound blunt but in my opinion you will NOT get a job in a Finnish speaking primary school. Let's be realistic... it will take you several years to even get close to acheiving some kind of fluency and no (Finnish) school will employ a teacher who cannot speak Finnish as "mother-tongue" you would be virtually useless to them. Finnish primary schools do not generally employ teaching assistants. Children with learning disabilities have lessons with an Erityisopettaja who is a highly qualified "special" teacher (usually educational psychologist). These specialists are shared between several schools. Finnish primary schools are usually fairly small (approx 200-250 students) so most will not even have a dedicated English teacher. Most EFL teachers are also teaching either Swedish or French. I know many native English teachers working in Finland (some who have been here 15 years or more) but I do not know of any teaching in "Finnish".

PS: I just read the post above. IIRC the poster is living in Oulu which is not necessarily representative of Finland in general. If you are moving to the capital area then things are quite different. For example, in Espoo where I live, there are 19 foreign languages taught on the "Upkeep" programme and literally hundreds of immigrant children benefitting from this. We have several foreign language schools in Espoo, Helsinki and Vantaa (Russian, German, French, English) and many immersion (bilingual) schools and Steiner, Montessori schools too.