Discrimination agaist Foreigners,Integration or Assimilation

Alien · Post by **Alien** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:34 pm

Hi every body:
I am a foreigner living in Finland for 13 years. I have been working in this country since 1997 and paying my taxes. I have a Master degree from Otaniemi in Telecommunication. I have applied for Finnish citizenship in 2001. I have got decision from UVI in 2005 after 4 years that I will not be given the citizenship because I am a threat against Finland's security and public order.

The Finnish security Police (sujopoliisi) does not indicate any proof at all. I have appealed against the decision and after 2 years the court has voted in favor of me and has said that UVI should correct his decision.

UVI has appealed against the decision and quoted from the Security Police that the national interest of Finland does not allow us to provide any proof. Sujopoliisi added that this information has been received from third country and they do not let us to disclose it.

Now the question is that if I have been a threat against Finland, why they have granted me permanent resident permit !? If I have become one latter, when and how did happen?!

In addition to that if I am a threat, how not giving Finnish nationality protect Fins and Finland?! Or if I am a dangerous person what can I do that I will not be able to do with a Finnish passport?! Making bombs and killing people does not need a Finnish nationality.

The thing is that I have not only got the citizenship, but also have lost my job after the company made a security check from Sujopoliisi.

Yes my friends, this is Finland and how they destroy your life. I have nothing against Fins. They are people like any one else in the world. Not better, not worse. However the state of Finland is very cruel and violates the human rights. This is no wonder that a few thousands Romanian moved to Finland 500 years ago, are running away from this country and they are not yet integrated to this society. The government is looking for assimilation rather to integration.

I would like to know if you fine people have similar cases as such and what is your opinion about this.

Alien

**Sponsor:**

Karhunkoski · Post by **Karhunkoski** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:41 pm

Where are you from originally?

Alien · Post by **Alien** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:45 pm

Does that really matter?

Karhunkoski · Post by **Karhunkoski** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:50 pm

Alien wrote:Does that really matter?

Well, erm, I was just sort of interested and believe it or not, I was feeling sympathetic towards your cause and that short question was all I could type between mouthfulls of chilli con carne, but if you're feeling like being confrontational, then go ahead, find someone else to read you post and I will go back to my Chilli and Chilean Cabernet Sauvingon

Alien · Post by **Alien** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:03 pm

That is really great. I would also like to know what you really think about this. I want to look at this more like a social survey and to find out similar cases and then try to find a solution for that.

That is why it really does not matter whom and from where! We are all human and if we consider each other's right, the world including Finland is much more better place to live.

Remember a society in which discrimination is justified, not only violates the minorities right, but also endangers the whole society's mental health including the land born inhabitants.

I still appreciate your view on this.

mina · Post by **mina** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:11 pm

Hi:
I am just surprised. If your story is true, that is a shame. Why should Finnish authorities behave with some one who works and educated as such. I personally think that we should condemn people with proof and let them defend themselves. We cannot just accuse people and not to come up with any evidence!

And to Wolf;
I think it is totally irrelevant where your are from. Human right is human right!
Cheers, Mina

EP · Post by EP » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:12 pm

This is no wonder that a few thousands Romanian moved to Finland 500 years ago, are running away from this country and they are not yet integrated to this society.

They are Roma, not Romanian. Where are they going? To visit their relatives in Sweden? And no, they are not integrated in a sense that they would have abandoned their own culture alltogether. They have just stopped the wandering lifestyle that they still had 50 years ago.

sara_espoo · Post by **sara_espoo** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:20 pm

Well this is what it is! You don't like it you can go to Sweden. There are lot of people from Africa and Middle eats living there. May be Finland is not the most foreigner friendly country! They say "take it or leave it" !!!

Karhunkoski · Post by **Karhunkoski** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:23 pm

mina wrote:And to Wolf;
I think it is totally irrelevant where your are from. Human right is human right!
Cheers, Mina

And I think I had a mouthful of dinner, my question was purely our of interest about this case. I don't recall attempting to make judgement

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:28 pm

Hmmm... my guess is you are that Somalian guy that was all over Ilta-sanomat a few weeks back? The case is quite unique.

Really the issue is complicated, it probably has to go through all court levels because the question is also over authority of Supo/UVI/Courts. However the legal principle in Finland has been that people should know what they are accused of, and if the evidence cannot be brought to court then it is not evidence.

Timbeh · Post by **Timbeh** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:28 pm

It's hard to take a stance in this matter as not all the facts are known. From your description it would seem that Suojelupoliisi is not acting like a respected official should. On the other hand, this is your story, told by you, and we can't know what the reasons behind the events are. Where are you from? What did you do there? Who were you affiliated with? Why would the Suojelupoliisi be interested in you?

The one thing I don't understand is why they're not giving you the reasons for not giving you citizenship. That's clearly a violation of your rights. It's as if they just put their hands up and said "just because", and that won't do. Not in a civiliced country.

farshid · Post by **farshid** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:31 pm

Well My friend welcome to Finland. You should have got used to it by now!
But Something I really do not understand is, if you are a threat against Finland's security, why they let you out loose! This does not make sense. I think it all smells rat. When they are reluctant to give you any proof. I wish you the best. I think the foreigners in Finland should be united if they want to preserve they rights.
Farshid !

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:31 pm

Timbeh wrote:The one thing I don't understand is why they're not giving you the reasons for not giving you citizenship.

Well, UVI says because Supo says no, and Supo clams up. IIRC the Ilta-rag article said that was exactly why the court returned the decision to UVI as they can't pull the secrecy card in a public document like that. Daryl can probably come up with the chapter and verse involved in hallintomenettelylaki, but the principle of open process is there.

Now of course Supo desn't want our friend to get a Finnish citizenship as if they get somewhere further third party information of a national security risk, you can't send a citizen packing.

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