School Shooting in Finland!

[Rosamunda]

- Monitoring of school kids by their teachers to try and pick up early warning signs.

Yes I agree since they are on the front line. But... this will require in-depth training of ALL school teachers since many are just not capable of picking up the warning signs. I have a friend whose son was just diagnosed with a severe learning disability - he is 13 yrs old. The educational psychologist said his was a classic text book example. So how come so many teachers failed to refer him for help even though my friend (the boy's mother) was convinced he had a problem. If learning disabilities are so difficult for teachers to diagnose then there will have to be some serious additional training if teachers are to monitor kids for other rarer mental illnesses too.

There also needs to be more active dialogue between home and school. I have been to school meetings where only a handful of parents even bother to turn up. I'm a parent rep on the school board of a junior high school in Espoo. Our presence is purely symbolic. The school board has no added value since parents are rarely ever consulted in decisions regarding school policy, or even informed. Everything is centralised by the bureaucrats in the municipalities and many schools are run by "administrators".

[Karhunkoski]

Yup I agree that fatalism is also dangerous.

I think what perhaps I am hinting at is how we handle the way we look at our lives. In the last 30 years there has been much study on post traumatic stress disorders and also studies which aim to put events in to perspective for "everyday people" (e.g. the old lay who watches so many news stories about people being mugged that she "believes" the situation is much worse than it is. She ends up becoming house-bound and her quality of life suffers).

My understanding is that counsellors aim to put such events into a perspective of probability and/or rarity, in an attempt to help people to look at their lives in an overall positive light.

I think we shouldn't lose sight of the "rarity" factor for the terrible events this week. We all handle the shock of what happened differently. Some call for knee jerk reactions (without thinking things through properly * see below). I believe one way for us to deal with it is to put this single event in perspective of a relatively safe society here in Finland.


(* I'm still interested to know how the supporters of a "hunting/gun ban" are going to handle the increase in moose-related accidents once culling can no longer take place. Already there are around 2000 collisions a year, something like 5-10 deaths, but most awfully around 200 are seriously injured, paralysed, brain damaged, etc. This wrecks lives in much the same way as one teenager shooting 8 people once in a blue moon. I'm in full support of practical solutions to help prevent such things happening again, but if such a solution is going to cause many more deaths and injuries, you just have to question some peoples' logic, or even their credibility as a rational human thinker.)

[stevoe]

[quote="sinikettu"]There will no doubt be a re-think about Finnish gun laws..

http://virtual.finland.fi/stt/showartic ... up=General


Oh Man, I cant beleive that, you just cant rationalize that Finland has such a lax and high gun related problem...man, we only have 5 million people....its like saying the whole of the US is like little rock...

bad publicity again.....

steve

[ScubaGirl]

Who said "BAN" guns??? I don't think I've seen a single person say, "Let's ban all guns". Guns exist and that's just the way it is. Stricter gun control is what I think most of us are talking about.

Anyway, there are enough people arguing my point here, so I don't wanna get caught up in another debate that will go nowhere. I've yet to see anyone on any forum say, "You know, you're right. I never thought about it that way. You've totally convinced me of your point and now I see things differently. How could I have been so ignorant? Thank you for changing my position on this issue."

[Hank W.]

where and what is this place Finland?

According to the Americans:Next to Gay Sweden

[catfish78]

where and what is this place Finland?

According to the Americans:Next to Gay Sweden

That is not all Americans. Just those in Kansas. They are a little "special" there.

[Karhunkoski]

I'm still interested to hear a sensible suggestion from someone who thinks:

but why the hell does anyone need a gun in the first place? Hunting? No need to HUNT in this day and age.

...just hwo exactly they intend to handle this:

how the supporters of a "hunting/gun ban" are going to handle the increase in moose-related accidents once culling can no longer take place. Already there are around 2000 collisions a year, something like 5-10 deaths, but most awfully around 200 are seriously injured, paralysed, brain damaged, etc. This wrecks lives in much the same way as one teenager shooting 8 people once in a blue moon.

[karen]

And just those at Westboro Baptist Church. Please don't paint us all with the same brush.

[Karhunkoski]

I've yet to see anyone on any forum say, "You know, you're right. I never thought about it that way. You've totally convinced me of your point and now I see things differently. How could I have been so ignorant? Thank you for changing my position on this issue."

This does happen I'm sure, perhaps you might even see it in this situation, once someone actually comes up with a valid and workable alternative method for culling 50,000 moose every year.

[ScubaGirl]

you really are hilarious karhunkoski

I actually do have a VERY good argument in regards to your whole moose vendetta, but I know it'll just open up a whole new can of worms that frankly I don't wanna waste my time arguing over. Be my guest and continuing debating until you're blue in the face. I've learned my lesson from past threads.

[sinikettu]

This does happen I'm sure, perhaps you might even see it in this situation, once someone actually comes up with a valid and workable alternative method for culling 50,000 moose every year.

Well 50,000 is probably a few more than is actualy needed to keep the Elks under control.

Hank and I will give it some more thought (during our next drinking session...tonight)
The last two alternatives that we came up with were not totaly practical.

1: All male Elks to be fitted with condoms.
2: Giant sized mouse traps in the forests ..well "moose" is nearly the same as "mouse" when you are pissed.
(even in Finnish hiiri hirvi)..

[Karhunkoski]

You are unreal.

You criticise the fact that people don't open themselves to ideas, then go on to hide your own super idea under a blanket.

I'm glad you find me funny, I find you a little irrational TBH, sorry. If you have a decent proposal, then propose it for god's sake. Otherwise some people may just think that you spouted off an opinion, without thinking through a suitable alternative.

[Karhunkoski]

Well 50,000 is probably a few more than is actualy needed to keep the Elks under control.

I'm interested to know your basis for this comment?

Approx Moose Kill Licences per year:

2002 84,525
2003 86,000
2004 68,000
2005 74,000
2006

(I don't have time to fill in the rest of the gaps now, will do later.)

And we still have 2000 collisions a year and have you heard concerns that moose are nearing extinction?

[mCowboy]

1: All male Elks to be fitted with condoms.
2: Giant sized mouse traps in the forests ..well "moose" is nearly the same as "mouse" when you are pissed.
(even in Finnish hiiri hirvi)..

and how are these less cruel than shooting them?

1. you deprive the male elk from that natural feeling
2. that's a huge chunk of cheese you're talking about and there's no one to make sure that the moose dies instantly...

[Rosamunda]

If I remember correctly, last year was around 90 000 but this year it is less. The numbers are controlled closely, and it is region by region (this year the quotas further north were lowered but in the south they were increased). I wish everyone would stop this amalgam of shooting and hunting. It is even harder to get a hunting permit (especially for elk) than it is to get a gun licence. All hunters have to pass a hunting exam (about the animals but also about hunting methods) and take a practical exam. This is on top of the requirements for obtaining the licence to own a rifle.

I really do not want to be part of this debate as I think it is diverting focus from far more critical areas of attention (like mental health care, education etc etc).