Car Problems

[peteh]

Hello All,

I've been having a few problems with the old car (Audio 80 2.0 1991). Just before christmas she wouldn't start due to the battery flat. Charged and everything ok.
A couple of weeks ago I was driving to work and the radio, lights etc started to dim and finally gave up on me. I managed to recharge the battery and get her going again.
I checked the voltage from the alternator and it was less than it should be, and the current was going up and down all over the place. Its a 90 Amp alternator so I cahange the brushes on the rear and everything fired up and sounded ok. I ran for approx 2 weeks. (I do approx. 100 kms a aday). Today when I was driving to work after about 30 kms I turned on my heater
and after 5 or 10 minutes again the same problem, managed to just get to work ! lights dimmed, gauges down etc. When I come to a halt and turned the engine off there was absolutley no power.
Heres the crazy thing ...... after about an hour, at tea break, I thought maybe I get the battery off again to charge and check the current once again etc. When I went to open the hood, I noticed that the interior light came on? so I put the key in and hey presso all lights on and she easily starts????
I check the current again over the terminals. Its weaker about 12.5, but how come no power than after a rest power back on. I checked all the cabling I could, belt etc. and also the earthing with a jump lead - everything seemes to be in place.
I gave the battery a small charge and with heaters, etc (and lights! off) I managed to do the 50 kms back to helsinki.

Now I believe the alternator is basically on the way out. Maybe the coils inside have finally given up and last week was just a bit of luck.
If anyone has anything else I could test then please let me know. Now I really don't want to go out and fork out 160 euros for an alternator which is ok. Is there anywhere close by to Oulunkylä that I could take the unit to be tested first.

someone mentioned atida in Malmi - does any one really know it, service, testing price etc? and would they recondition the unit? or any recommendations where I could go to solve this little problem.

Thanks Peter

[Hank W.]

Pukinmäki Esso reconditions alternators.

[peteh]

OK, thanks Hank. Ball park figure how much do you think? 50 euros? for a reconditioned unit.

Out of interest, does anyone know why the car restarted after it seemed like it was completey flat? or is it just a case of gremlins

[Mattlill2000]

Don't they have a Voltage Regulator between the alternator and battery? At least they used to and its the cheaper alternative to the alternator. Maybe worth a try before forking out the big euros.

[peteh]

Don't they have a Voltage Regulator between the alternator and battery? At least they used to and its the cheaper alternative to the alternator. Maybe worth a try before forking out the big euros.

Sorry, thats the small piece that I changed a few weeks ago. That is why I'm still a little confused?

[Rob A.]

Here's something to think about...I pulled this off the web:

If this vehicle is 10 years old or older you might want to try adding direct cables from the battery to the alternator. We do this on older cars with similar issues to rule out the possibility of a problem in the wire harness.

Using the proper size wire, attach these wires from the alternator direct to the battery...leave the existing battery cables in place of course, these new cables just offer the current a new path with less resistance. A good alternator repair shop probably already has these patch cables made up and ready to sell you.

It's hard to guess without seeing the car in action, but think about problems with the wiring harness.... Poor connections can be more problematic during damper weather, etc. All sorts of things can happen to a car over time...my beloved old BMW 735i, now almost 24 years old...has developed some intermittent electrical problems...and I think I know why...over the years I've had rats periodically living under the hood...among other things they like to chew on the wiring...

I mentioned this possibility to the mechanic...Not a revelation to him...he's seen that and worse before...

And one year when the car to my surprise failed the air quality test, I found the pesky little critters had built a nest in my air filter housing...


But I'm a big fan of "direct wiring testing"...though the caveat is you really do have to know what you are doing...you don't want to fry any of the electronic components...

Edit: regarding the voltage regulator, by 1991 it should be built into the alternator...on the 1970s stuff..at least the German stuff I used to "backyard mechanic" on, the voltage regs were separate...

[Reona]

You said you measured the current - you mean voltage - with the car running it should be nearer 14 v than 12 v across the battery terminals. If it is not, it could well be the alternator. Also clean the battery terminals well and lightly lubricate. There is not much difference between the alternator output and the battery voltage itself - so dirty terminals can cause problems. However if the car is dying when running, the alternator does sound like the problem - a running car does not need a battery to supply the current necessary for lights etc. Turning the heater on does not use a lot of current - you are just turning a fan- maybe 10 to 15 amps - lights could take 20 amps more depending on your set up. So nowhere near your 90 amp output. Why don't you Google Audi 80 forum? - there must be plenty of forums out there where you can ask model specific questions.

[peteh]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I'm going to take the alternator off today and drop it down to either pukimäki esso or adita in malmi and let them test it for faults.
If its bad and they can recondition then hopefully problem solved. If it beyond repair I will have to invest in a new one.

If the alternator is ok, I will take RoB. A advice and see about direct cabling, or see if adita can pin point any wiring problem.

Lucky a guy at my work is on the same shift as me for 2 weeks, so I have a bit of time to get this sorted.

[Mattlill2000]

Let us know how it turns out.

[ad]

A wet cell battery will actually gain charge if you leave it for a while when it has run down, only a small amount but usually enough to start a car. Of course it only happens if the battery is good...

If, while you're driving, the electric power runs out then it's definitely an alternator/voltage regulator problem, especially if it is a problem that becomes an issue in a short space of time. If it's a short it will usually drain the battery when the car is not running, and any other electrics, i.e ignition it will effect only that one system. The only other thing I can think of is if the connections are loose, or the terminals on the battery are dirty.

[rob34]

How old is the battery?

I know we haven't had a rough couple of winters, but a busted ass battery can have some pretty wacky behaviour sometimes.

[peteh]

Took the old girl down to Adita in Malmi this morning. It seems that the alternator is really on its last legs. The service guy said that by changing the voltage regular will only bring back a bit of life for about 1 to 2 weeks, which fits into my scenerio. They are checking over the car tomorrow. I also have a small problem with both fans turning on at start up too.
Hopefully the car is up and running again early next week, I will keep you posted on the outcome, hopefully this may also solve another regular's problem.

Pete

[Hank W.]

The thermostat valve might be stuck... I had it changed... 3-4 times as I got "cheap" ones. My problem was the fan didn't come on.

[Reona]

The thermostat valve might be stuck... I had it changed... 3-4 times as I got "cheap" ones. My problem was the fan didn't come on.

The thermostat i guess you mean. Stuck where - closed open? Has zilch to do with fans coming on on start up. Suggest this forum avoids car problems - really - there are soooo many forums that know so much and can really help.

[Hank W.]

Whatever the Thermoschalter is in English that controls the fan starting. Cheap ones get the bimetal stuck.