Buying a second hand car + insurance etc .

[Upphew]

So for that full (or fart protection ) kasko on say a 10k car would cost roughly how much? I assume it goes on the value...

It depends on make and model of car, engine size, first year car was registered, age and residence of owner. At least those. Most insurance companies have insurance calculators at their sites.

[Cloudberry]

Wow that's expensive. I think the non comprehensive insurance is the way to go unless you buy a new car. I only pay about AU$800 (about 460 euro) now for my sports car which is insured for 40k. It's great to know all this stuff now as it certainly helps you when making decisions about what car to get in Finland.

[Cod]

I only pay about AU$800

..yes but you need to factor in the tax rebate. My rebate is around 1000euro a year. The insurance on our 20k euro car is around 700 euro fully-comp (maybe less, can't remember). So in fact, the car cost's nothing to insure, and 5 tanks (around 3000km of driving) of gas are on-the-house.

I don't think Oz offers that kind of rebate unless you're a company etc.

Of course, there's all kinds of silly games I can play with this rebate figure but it's good to remember that many 'expensive' things in Finland are sometimes offset by less obvious things that are not always obvious.

[Cloudberry]

Wow you get a tax rebate on your car insurance?

Yes, true you can claim your insurance as a business expense here but thats only if you've earned enough money. I've only worked part time in my business the past year so there was nothing to claim against even though my car is classified as my work vehicle.

So let me get this straight. Anybody who pays taxes as an employee in Finland can claim their car insurance at tax time? Its just not for businesses?

[Cod]

..ah yes and no.

The taxman allows anyone who is on a public transport route to claim back the cost of a yearly public transport ticket. Presto, that's a grand back in our pocket. If you are not on a public transport route you can claim back the km's driven in your car (which is enough in my case would be enough to buy another second hand small car every year - but I'm around 700 walking metres short of being able to claim this ).

[Cloudberry]

So if you live in an area not accessible to public transport you can claim the kms travelled in your car to work plus the insurance premium? But if you do live near public transport you can't? (but you can claim your public transport costs to work?)

[Pursuivant]

http://www.vero.fi => travel expenses... somewhere there in the tax guide or whatever... cheapest option always...

[Cod]

..ah yes and no

you can claim back the cost of the a working year of public transport tickets - which is enough to cover the car expenses (especially if you're the fair dinkum aussie type who knows how to drop a new engine block in the old Holden to keep the old rust bucket on the road)

..and no, you can't claim car insurance as an expense.

..but yes, if you have to cover more than 3km by bicycle or walking to get to work because there is no public transport which would help make the journey shorter, then you can claim around 22cents per km.

[Upphew]

..ah yes and no.

The taxman allows anyone who is on a public transport route to claim back the cost of a yearly public transport ticket. Presto, that's a grand back in our pocket. If you are not on a public transport route you can claim back the km's driven in your car (which is enough in my case would be enough to buy another second hand small car every year - but I'm around 700 walking metres short of being able to claim this ).

Umm... isn't the deduction done from the taxable income not the tax itself? So if I Earn 10.000/year and my tax rate is 20%, I pay 2.000 taxes. And if my bus tickets cost 1.000/year, I pay 1.800 in taxes, not 1.000?

[sinikala]

The taxman allows anyone who is on a public transport route to claim back the cost of a yearly public transport ticket.

My understanding is somewhat different.

http://www.vero.fi/nc/doc/download.asp?id=3758;122021

The first €500 of transport costs to and from work are out of your own pocket (see section 3.5). And they count only 11 months.

So if you live in Hki and you buy 11 x €42,80 monthly tickets (€470,80) then you don't get any tax break.
If you live in Helsinki and work in Espoo 11 x €68,80 = €756,80 then you'll get €256,80 back.

If you live further out and public transport costs are higher, then you can claim more (obviously).

"3.5 Costs for travelling from home to work and back
Commuting costs are deductible, but there is a de minimis of €500. (For some recipients of unemployment
benefits, the de minimis is lower. The Tax Administration will make the necessary calculation
automatically, based on third-party information received from Kela and other authorities.) If the
costs exceed €500, write the total amount, do not subtract the €500. Fill out the columns of the
table to give complete details.
If you had employer-subsidized commuter tickets, write the tax-deductible portion of their value.
The highest possible deduction is €7,000.00. The deduction will usually be granted assuming that
the cheapest means of transportation (public transportation) was used. If you claim deduction for
other than public transportation, explain the reasons.
Examples of situations where the taxpayer’s own automobile can be regarded as the cheapest means
of transportation:
• No public means of transportation is available.
• Public transport is available, but one-way walking distance would be three kilometres or more.
• Public transport is available, but waiting times (not the actual travelling times) during the round
trip from home to work and back would be two hours or longer.
Nevertheless, the use of the taxpayer’s own automobile is not deductible if the taxpayer only cites
reasons such as “I must take children to school or daycare by car” or “it is connected with my work
that I have the car, because I might need it during the day”.
The lines 3.4, especially the “Other expenses” line, are intended for travel expenses (not the daily
commute between home and work), including any increase in living costs, when work has been done
at a secondary place of work, a construction site, a forest, and the employer has not paid for the
expenses."

[Pursuivant]

If you live in Helsinki and work in Espoo 11 x €68,80 = €756,80 then you'll get €256,80 back.

which is a deduction a lot of "people who don't know things everybody knows" omit. and these days you can do this deduction online => as a lot of working people in GHA commute but don't have much if anything else to deduct, so they implemented the system to avoid paperwork. also other deductibles (usually transferred automatically are union fees and such) should be checked... sometimes the tax office knows, sometimes it doesn't...

[sinikala]

which is a deduction a lot of "people who don't know things everybody knows" omit.

Seems to be so.

Umm... isn't the deduction done from the taxable income not the tax itself? So if I Earn 10.000/year and my tax rate is 20%, I pay 2.000 taxes. And if my bus tickets cost 1.000/year, I pay 1.800 in taxes, not 1.000?

Unless your income is very small, you have to pay the first €500* of travel ... so if you would normally pay €1000 for travel, you are entitled to the other €500 to be deducted from your tax bill.

In the case that you would normally pay €750 tax per annum,** you would instead need to pay €250.

* this figure seems that it can be lower for those on very low income?
** surely an income of €10k would have a tax rate lower than 20%?! ... seems it's closer to 7,5%

[Pursuivant]

well I guess upphew's figures were from the trilby for easy calculations

[Cod]

you have to pay the first €500* of travel

..snatched

Seems that the balance on the 2006 refund must have come from somewhere else - missed that one.

Also -that being the case that the first 500 is home-grown, the tax rates I was given by Vero for 2007 tax year are 500 euro adrift. That's going to hurt come December this year