!IDEAS needed! Solution Arena for foreigners in Finland

nontharos · Post by **nontharos** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:14 pm

Dear all,

I have been participating in one of the workshop arranged by VTT,EPACE and Somus. I would like to hear from people in this forum who are foreigners living in Finland or people who are with immigrant background. Currently we are having the project to create the Solution Arena, as an online medial tools.

The purposes are to
1. Promote positive meeting place.
2. For both immigrants and natives to exchange the ideas and knowledge from each others.
3.Acting as the knowledge sharing and problem solving
4. Place for finding solution both for ad hoc or for long term issues.

What I would like to hear from all of you who are foreigners living in Finland is that

WHAT COULD BE THE INTERESTING TOPICs FOR THE SOLUTION ARENA to be DISCUSSED?
WHAT DO YOU LIKE TO DISCUSS IN ORDER TO CREATE THE ONLINE KNOWLEDGE SHARINNG AND PROBLEM SOLVING AMONG FOREIGNERS AND THE NATIVES?
WHAT DO YOU WANT FINLAND TO DO IN ORDER TO FIX THE EXISTING CHALLENGES RELATING TO CULTURAL ISSUES, INTEGRATION ISSUES OR IF THERE IS ANY ISSUES THAT YOU THINK IT CAN BE IMPROVED?

YOUR voice on the solution arena will influence the change in the society and community...
THIS IS A VERY GOOD CHANCE FOR ALL OF US, FOREIGNERS LIVING In FINLAND TO HAVE THE VOICE SAID that will influence the changes!!!

Appreciated all voices that post your comments and reviews under this topics.
You can find more information about the development of solution arena from http://owela.vtt.fi/immigrantmedia/

Thank you very much
Nan

**Sponsor:**

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:24 pm

Well first dont yell, yelling isnt nice and colored yelling makes me mad.
And for question i quote "Don't ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" by John F. Kennedy.
Also i want to remind this is Finland, land of finns. We fought this piece of land to us with blood and sweat so do not wait that we will appease any "cultural issues".
Question should be What you can do in order to fix existing challenges...

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:34 pm

Biggest problem is usually about "things everyone knows but nobody tells you".

Nazreddin Hodza mounted the minbar and addressed the congregation. "O Believers," asked Nasreddin, "do you know what I am about to say?" "No, we don't," chorused the congregation. Nasreddin paused dramatically, then said: "If you don't know what I'm going to say, then what's the use of my talking?" And he descended from the minbar. The congregation looked at one another in confusion.

A week went by, and when Friday came, Nasreddin once more climbed the steps of the minbar and addressed the congregation. "O Believers, do you know what I am about to say?" This time the congregation was not going to be caught napping. "Yes," they all answered. "We know what you are about to say." Nasreddin again paused dramatically. Then he said, "Since you all know what I'm about to say, there's no need for me to say it." And he descended from the minbar. The congregation was bewildered. Finally, they decided that next Friday, one half of them would answer "no" to the shaikh's question, and the other half would answer "yes."

A week went by, and when Friday came, the faithful hurried to the mosque. Nasreddin mounted the minbar. "O Believers," he said, "do you know what I am about to say?" "No!" shouted half the congregation. "Yes!" shouted the other half. Nasreddin paused dramatically. Then he said, "Very good. Those of you who know tell those who don't." And he descended from the minbar.

riku2 · Post by **riku2** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:46 pm

nontharos wrote:FIX THE EXISTING CHALLENGES RELATING TO CULTURAL ISSUES, INTEGRATION ISSUES

So you are assuming that "foreigners" in finland have integration issues? I suppose next you will be trying to help us hapless foreigners get jobs and avoid discrimination - on the assumption that us foreigners are low skilled, badly treated by the locals and either out of work or earning less than finns do (as almost every article about foreigners in the english language hesari or YLE news pages do).

from my point of view:

Issues to be improved: finns drive small cars and the parking places at ruoholahti shopping mall are a bit small for my BMW 5 series (even with the help of the parking radar).
Cultural issues: ground staff at the airport are more polite to me (speaking english) than they are when speaking in finnish to my (finnish) girlfriend and her parents in the queue behind me. Perhaps my lufthansa gold card merits special treatment for me but I expect good treatment of all in our party, finn or not.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:55 pm

Naah, you're more apt to tip, unless you speak German and they'll be as rude as to the Finns.

tizlit · Post by **tizlit** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:08 pm

I have changed from speaking Finnish into English at public offices etc, I get much better service that way - and hah ha also understand them better.

nontharos · Post by **nontharos** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:54 am

Biggest problem is usually about "things everyone knows but nobody tells you"

To Pursuivant, could you please elaborate what are the things you think everyone knows but nobody tells?
It's interesting to hear from your point of view. If you don't want to put it here, you can pm me.
Thanks

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:07 am

Well that is all the things you come up with as a surprise and all the Finns look at you as you are a stupid if you did not know this. It depends on your culture and what you are used to do as the "normal thing"...

A small one for example, my friend came home after 2 hours waiting for the bus - it was running at 10 minute intervals. I asked what was wrong... she was on the bus stop but all the buses whizzed past... nobody told her here you have to put up your hand to stop the bus... well, "everybody knows" you need to flag the bus... So where does one start explaining these things "everybody knows" from - do we start from "breathe in - breathe out"? Its very hard in a sense.

llewellyn · Post by **llewellyn** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:32 pm

onkko wrote:colored yelling makes me mad.

Well, that's hardly news...

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:50 pm

nontharos wrote:
Biggest problem is usually about "things everyone knows but nobody tells you"
To Pursuivant, could you please elaborate what are the things you think everyone knows but nobody tells?
It's interesting to hear from your point of view. If you don't want to put it here, you can pm me.
Thanks

...yes, stopping buses.

also,

taking bottles back for the deposit
keeping cats indoors
what you can/cannot put in the trash and where to dump everything else
signing kids up for after-school club when you enrol them in primary school

etc etc etc

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:10 pm

It can be also small silly things say going out to the local pub and trying to order a drink and then do something... you might think its easy but it has proved to be very hard for some people (observations at the local). I think though it has to do with a "sense of observation"... things like body language even can be different so you get mixed signals - or give them out. Some people are apt at "going native"... some don't care for that... some would like to but can't grasp how.

OK, so saying hello to some random granny on the street with a big smile - is that polite and friendly or a crazy person harrassing her?

Finland is a "foreign country" things are done differently from "normal at home" because the locals are "at home" and do things as is "normal at home".... so they're not the ones being all weird - its that person in the mirror.

Not saying that any small gaffes might be a total catastrophy except one might be looked at as Mr Bean. Or then getting harrassement from the grannies due to the trash being in the wrong place...

stiff · Post by **stiff** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:25 am

Not putting your hand out for the bus is just crazy. I could understand if you had to do it for trains or something.

The rubbish bins thing is definitely a good one. I had been here a week and the girlfriend tells me to take out the rubbish. Well, when I found the bins I ended up having to look in each one and try to figure out what went where. Stuff like that you only need to learn once, it's so easy, but when you don't know it, it can make you feel extremely frustrated.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:39 pm

Lets say not even the natives "get it" always... trash is sometimes difficult.

nontharos · Post by **nontharos** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:15 pm

Yeah I agree with you all for the little things that the native knows but others don't. It would be very helpful and useful discussion topic and definitely worth being to mention and discuss in the meeting.
Thanks u all for sharing the ideas. I will definitely raise this issues up when we have the next time meeting and I will say it is the ideas/ suggestions from all you guys in finland forum.

Would be nice to have this post keep rolling on and on. As I believe there are so many people with good ideas / suggestions out here

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:39 pm

The thing is then from where the person is from how close/distant the things they do is and if that will cause them or their neighbors frustration... I remember coming back from the desert, I always kicked my shoes or banged my boots... someone asked "why" and I answered "so the scorpions get out"... ummm...

But its the same thing you go to any foreign country...

so which is for coffee and which is for whitewash?

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