Vesi vanhin voitehista

[Satish]

With the proverb - Vesi vanhin voitehista the word voitehista has me stumped.

I first thought it might be a weird form of voide (ointment, salve) but voide does not seem to decline into anything with a 'h' in it.
I gave it a good dose of fintwol, which had no suggestions.
Finally, I tried good old google and it came up with Vesi vanhin voitehista, lääkkehistä parahin !!!!!!! Now what the #$%# is lääkkehistä and voitehista?

[onkko]

Old finnish or lapland dialect, that h doesnt exist anymore atleast not in clear form in formal finnish. Remove h and you get voide and lääke

[EP]

It is just a poetic way of saying: Vesi on vanhin voide, lääkkeistä parhain (paras lääke)

[sammy]

As others have already pointed out, it's an archaic/poetic form. It's hardly ever heard or used anymore, except maybe in such old proverbs/sayings/song lyrics, and even then with only certain adjectives (like "kallis" or "paras" -> patjaksensa parahin / matto levitellään) - so you do not really need to master it for everyday usage

Rakkain (from rakkain) would then likewise be -> rakkahin...

In some traditional songs you might come across "kallehin" -> kallein (the dearest, not the most expensive -as in 'kallis ystävä'- although some might argue that these two may intertwine )

Then again, in some dialects that "h" is still prominent.

Notta me veretähän sua turpahan

(not genuine ostrobothnian but something like that)

[Satish]

Thanks onkko, EP, sammy for the quick replies. I think I fell into the old dialect sudenkuoppa again.

Your answers got me thinking about the superlative...

Originally I construed vesi vanhin voiteista as "Water is the oldest salve" and assumed that it followed everyday grammar rules. Looking up Leila White "A Grammar Book of Finnish" it seems that I have missed the point.

The correct forms in non-idiomatic form should be:
1: Vesi on yksi vanhimmista voiteista. Water is one of the oldest salves.
2: Vesi on mitä vanhin voide. Water is the oldest salve.

Am I on the right track or should I heed the words "Kuka on jo kuopassa, älä kaiva!"

[sammy]

The correct forms in non-idiomatic form should be:
1: Vesi on yksi vanhimmista voiteista. Water is one of the oldest salves.
2: Vesi on mitä vanhin voide. Water is the oldest salve.

Brilliant - just right (although one might not hear those particular phrases too often )

edit: it's not always easy to exactly translate the difference between phrases like

vesi on (kaikkein) vanhin voide
and
vesi on mitä vanhin voide

into English... the former would be "the oldest of all" but the latter does not readily translate with this particular adjective IMO... it's close to what you get in sentences like "there was the strangest noise from downstairs" (alakerrasta kuului mitä oudoin ääni)...

...but the translations you provided were quite good, just to the point.

[Jukka Aho]

Then again, in some dialects that "h" is still prominent.

Notta me veretähän sua turpahan :lol:

(not genuine ostrobothnian but something like that)

Sounds quite OK to me.

Tultihin siihen lopputuloksehen, notta ny(m) me veretähän sua turpahan!

Here’s a quick “laundry list” of things you need to keep in mind in order to sound Ostrobothnian:

• Peräseinäjoesta ja sen murteesta

As for voitehista, that’s a perfectly OK form in Ostrobothnian dialects even today. More information about this mysterious “h” can be found with the following Google search:

• vokaalienvälinen h

If you want to hear more Ostrobothnian (Kauhajoki) dialect than is healthy for most normal people, there was this recent documentary of Jorma Panula on TV:

• Syrän lämmin ja avara – Jorma Panula (Yle Areena)

Then there’s Rehupiikles, of course... (click, click, click)