Violation of employee's right in Finland

[CatNip]

Communist bastards. I want money, not holiday.

[Rosamunda]

Law also makes sure that annal leave cannot be changed to cash to protect the employees.

Communist bastards. I want money, not holiday.

And some companies are offering extra holiday.... without pay. On a voluntary basis, of course

[riku2]

As a matter a fact, in almost all cases you can agree on when you take holidays with your employer. In many Finnish companies the most wanted times are around Midsummer, and normally there is a system in the companies that everybody get the most wanted period on their turn. I have never had any problems on sorting out my holidays with my employer.
Law also makes sure that annal leave cannot be changed to cash to protect the employees.

Yes, you can agree it with your employer but you must stay within the law, so both employer and employee must follow the law on what can be taken, regardless of what either party would really prefer

From here: http://www.finlex.fi/pdf/saadkaan/E0050162.PDF

A total of 24 weekdays of the annual holiday must be taken in the holiday season (summer holiday). ... Summer holiday and winter
holiday must each be granted as uninterrupted periods unless, for work continuity reasons, it is essential to divide the portion of the summer holiday exceeding 12 weekdays into one or more parts.

So the "exceeding 12 weekdays" means that you must have at least one two week holiday period in the summer.

The employer and the employee may agree that the employee will take the portion of the holiday that exceeds 12 weekdays in one or more periods

Again, you must have at least one two week uninterrupted holiday period per year. Whether you (as an employee) want to or not.

If the granting of a holiday during the holiday season results in substantial difficulties for the employer’s operations in seasonal work, the summer holiday may be granted outside the holiday season during the same calendar year

Some respite here, you do not have to take your two week unbroken mandatory summer holiday in the summer, you have to take it from 2 May - 31 Dec .. IF it would cause trouble for the employer. So if you worked for a company where it did not cause trouble, theoretically you must take two weeks in the summer.

The law does make sense if you look at it from the point of view of protecting 't workers from being exploited by the management, who would otherwise deny them their time at their summer cottages. But if you are the kind of person who doesn't want to take long unbroken holidays then it is rather tedious to have to comply with the two week unbroken holiday at least once a year. I am sure there are no finns who want to take small holidays like this but there is no need to force everyone too. Mommy knows best, take your two weeks holiday now.

[jtammilehto]

What I was trying to say is that the holidays are based on long term work relationship; if you work less than a year (depends when ou start), you are not allowed to have winterholiday or summerholiday. In other countries you just build up every month 2 or 2,5 days and if you start in May in a new job, you can just go into minus for 10 days holiday and if you decide to leave in september, they just deduct these days from your salary. Better system and less fuss with counting the saturdays ( what happens when you take 4 days, they take a saturday anyhow) .

Oh good god - you have to work someplace for a YEAR before you get 4-5 weeks holiday!

Good grief what a CRUEL world!!

And if you work less than a year you still get proportional days off - or included in your severance pay.

Give it a rest!!! There are a billion more relevant injustices going on - get off the soap box re Finnish 'holidays' - we don't need it! - thanks!

[Rick1]

Yes everything is fine here in Finland, maybe you have a little bit too much sickies, alcoholics, many retirees before they are 30 etc. but please do not look abroad how they are doing it, you might learn something.

[Tiwaz]

Yes everything is fine here in Finland, maybe you have a little bit too much sickies, alcoholics, many retirees before they are 30 etc. but please do not look abroad how they are doing it, you might learn something.

Please do not remember that this is not abroad, but Finland. There might be "slight" differences in sizes and demographics which make abroad to be pointless source.

I mean, foreign attitude of "work while sick so you can spread the joy" is so much better in society where most slack from workplaces has been cut off already.

[Rip]

A total of 24 weekdays of the annual holiday must be taken in the holiday season (summer holiday). ... Summer holiday and winter
holiday must each be granted as uninterrupted periods unless, for work continuity reasons, it is essential to divide the portion of the summer holiday exceeding 12 weekdays into one or more parts.

This part of the law (section 20) states what are rights of employee that the employer can not violate - employer can not order the employee not to have at least two weeks continuous summer holiday

The employer and the employee may agree that the employee will take the portion of the holiday that exceeds 12 weekdays in one or more periods

Again, you must have at least one two week uninterrupted holiday period per year. Whether you (as an employee) want to or not.

True, but as hard as I try, I do not find anywhere stated that this two week uniterrupted vacation period would need to be during the summer

If the granting of a holiday during the holiday season results in substantial difficulties for the employer’s operations in seasonal work, the summer holiday may be granted outside the holiday season during the same calendar year

Some respite here, you do not have to take your two week unbroken mandatory summer holiday in the summer, you have to take it from 2 May - 31 Dec .. IF it would cause trouble for the employer. So if you worked for a company where it did not cause trouble, theoretically you must take two weeks in the summer.

You are jumping back to section 20, which handles what the employer may do without employee's consent.

The employer and the employee may agree on setting the annual holiday in a period that starts at the beginning of the calendar year which includes the holiday season and ends the following year before the start of the holiday season. Furthermore, an agreement can also be made on the taking of the portion of the holiday exceeding 12 weekdays within one year of the end of the holiday season.

So, you must have at least two weeks of uninterrupted vacation between the start of the calendar year and beginning of the holiday season (May 2nd) in the next year. Nothing in the law prevents having that three (or four) weeks in South-Africa in January.

[Lamminparras]

Oh good god - you have to work someplace for a YEAR before you get 4-5 weeks holiday!

Good grief what a CRUEL world!!

And if you work less than a year you still get proportional days off - or included in your severance pay.

Give it a rest!!! There are a billion more relevant injustices going on - get off the soap box re Finnish 'holidays' - we don't need it! - thanks!

THANK YOU! If you have a problem with it move, this is Finland, they do not bend over for foreigners, because you should have realized how it works BEFORE you came here. Coming into other peoples countries and then complaining about how things work is ridiculous.

[Pursuivant]

This being Finland I think the foreigner is going to thank their deities for getting a job first... people landed in a niche job of course can afford to whine.

[Rick1]

Yes complaining please only allowed by Finns.

May I remind you that this supposed to be a forum where (foreign) people may find information about Finland and also foreigners are allowed to inform (other foreigners) about facts in Finland!

I think it is only good for you nationalists that certain people get good information about e.g. holidays which are strangly counted, lack of employee protection etc. etc. before they get here. It might be a reason why it will get more difficult to get (and keep) highly educated professionals.

[Rip]

May I remind you that this supposed to be a forum where (foreign) people may find information about Finland and also foreigners are allowed to inform (other foreigners) about facts in Finland!

Whther you like it or not

This being Finland I think the foreigner is going to thank their deities for getting a job first

.. is probably at least as much a fact than an opinion.

I think it is only good for you nationalists that certain people get good information about e.g. holidays which are strangly counted, lack of employee protection etc. etc. before they get here. It might be a reason why it will get more difficult to get (and keep) highly educated professionals.

I'm sure if one would compile a reasonable list of top ten reasons why highly educated professionals would be more likely to choose USA instead of Finland as a place of residence, neither lack of vacation time or poor employee protection here would be on it. (or availability of information about rules and legislation regarding employment or availability of jobs for highly educated professionals who do not speak the language of the majority for that matter either)

[Pursuivant]

Vacation in USA? Whats that? Labor Day weekend? As for job security, you can get laid off there over lunchbreak. Must be some other factors involved.

[Pursuivant]

.. is probably at least as much a fact than an opinion.

I wonder what the half-life of "finding a job" straight off the plane is these days.

[Mölkky-Fan]

What I was trying to say is that the holidays are based on long term work relationship; if you work less than a year (depends when ou start), you are not allowed to have winterholiday or summerholiday. In other countries you just build up every month 2 or 2,5 days and if you start in May in a new job, you can just go into minus for 10 days holiday and if you decide to leave in september, they just deduct these days from your salary. Better system and less fuss with counting the saturdays ( what happens when you take 4 days, they take a saturday anyhow) .

But as we know already, Finns are stuborn and do not want a foreigner to tell them wat to do so it is still paradise here and jsut shut up

And what Penelope mentioned is true, they should be getting better control I would say.

Ah, but the idea is that you build up your holidays, and if you leave a company you get paid for the holidays you have earned... then in the next company you take unpaid days holiday (and use the money you got from your last company). Absolutely agree with the Saturday bit... pain in the @rse. And of course if you are starting with your first company in Finland you are in problems with holidays, but such is life! Been there done that!

[Pursuivant]

Ah, but they only switched over to a five-day work week in the turn of the 1970's - you really expect miracles in 40 odd years?