Is Language test necessary

[peteh]

I have often wondered why anyone would want to change their citizenship status in the first place. Why not be proud of who you are and where you came from.
Why anyone would want to announce themselves as Finnish is beyond me !

[Jukka Aho]

I have often wondered why anyone would want to change their citizenship status in the first place. Why not be proud of who you are and where you came from.

Here’s AldenG’s post again in case you missed it. See here as well, for another viewpoint. And here’s yet another personal account.

You might also want to check out the story of Marutei Tsurunen (born Martti Turunen). He has written a book about his life called I want to be Japanese but I’m not sure if it has actually been published in English. The original Japanese edition is apparently titled Nihon-jin ni naritai (日本人になりたい) and it is available as a Finnish translation by the name Martti Turusen japanilainen elämä (WSOY 1994, ISBN 951-0-19824-2.)

(The BBC story is from 2002 and so doesn’t mention he was reelected in 2007, and apparently also in 2009.)

[Rosamunda]

interesting and topical subject. France is also currently debating its position on dual citizenship. There is a presidential election coming up and this is one of the topics on which some of the candidates have voiced their intentions.

http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blog ... -dual.html
http://www.connexionfrance.com/dual-cit ... ticle.html

Although most of the articles quote Marine Le Pen (of the far right "Front National" party) it seems that Sarkozy is also in favour of abolishing dual nationality.

[CarmenfromTexas]

It's a tough language to learn but it's a good idea if you and the Mrs are going to have children. If you are an older person, there are slower moving courses offered. My brain is stubbornly resistant to learning languages but I struggle on and gradually information begins to sink in. So I completely understand your fear of trying to learn it. Taking the same class twice works for many of us. Also if you take Finnish classes, you receive a language rating score. I think a score of 3.0 is enough to qualify becoming a citizen. Good luck to you and welcome to Finland!

Finns are very proud of their nation and insist on respect for their language and culture. So you really should get naked, jump in a sauna with friends and sing a baudy song in Finnish while drinking some beer.
You must live here at least 10 years before you can pass out on a park bench while wearing a string of makkara around your neck.

[magenta22]

I'd be interested to know what a Finnish language test is like. Is it entirely written or does it include a face to face interview? Do you have link with more with detail? Thanks.

That is the same exam that we can do for the Finnish School and people who have done it (two out of the whole school!) hard is an understatement.

Why do you want to become a Finnish Citizen, if you have residency do you need to actually call yourself Finnish? If/when we move to Finland and then married (hopefully!) I don't think I would change that, just to as my OH does here and go to the embassy to renew passport.

[Upphew]

Why do you want to become a Finnish Citizen, if you have residency do you need to actually call yourself Finnish? If/when we move to Finland and then married (hopefully!) I don't think I would change that, just to as my OH does here and go to the embassy to renew passport.

If you happen to work for prolonged periods abroad, there is a possibility that you lose your RP: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=57059

[Kutittaa]

I have often wondered why anyone would want to change their citizenship status in the first place. Why not be proud of who you are and where you came from.
Why anyone would want to announce themselves as Finnish is beyond me !

Just to throw my 2 cents in imho you can't announce yourself as 'Finnish' after getting citizenship.

But you can announce yourself as a 'Finnish citizen'.

hmmm... first comes in mind word "idiot" but....

Do you really think that finnish citizenship is just some stamp in paper? You dont get only priviledges but also responsibilities and you need to understand what is going to happen so you need finnish.
Getting citizenship is way more than just stamp in paper.

Oh my God, is what first comes to my mind when I read Onkko's post. Indeed, oh my God ... is the impression you want to give to foreigners asking a simple qestion that Finland is a country full of w^°k@!s that start barking at people whenever they do not live up to your standards?
Grow up man and go insult people on the street, would really like to see how far you'd go
h yeah, well, don't bother answering because I think I already know what your answer'll be, something along the lines of 'well, if is simple question, answer is simple too, rant, rant rant...' all written in an excruciatingly bad English.
And just for the record: yes, Finnish nationality is finally, athe end of the day, after all, ultimately nothing more than a simple stamp on a paper...

Just for the record YOUR English is excruciating... and I agree with onkko.. OP posted a really... really silly question on a forum when he could have found out from a simple google search. Obviously OP doesn't really know any Finnish and wants to get out of the language test, and just wants citizenship. While this is all presumptuous it's also quite justifiably apparent.

"And nothing of worth was lost."

P.S. To OP I'm pretty much sure if you take any other citizenship when you have Chinese you lose your Chinese citizenship.

[sy]

Why do you want to become a Finnish Citizen, if you have residency do you need to actually call yourself Finnish? If/when we move to Finland and then married (hopefully!) I don't think I would change that, just to as my OH does here and go to the embassy to renew passport.

Migri explains the citizenship as "membership of a certain state. Includes both rights and obligations, e.g. full political rights and the right to receive diplomatic protection abroad". So with the citizenship you can enjoy the full political rights.

As discussed earlier in the forum, a Finnish citizen can bring the non-EU spouse in without the income requirement, while a PR holder needs to fulfill the income requirement. That's the difference.

[sy]

Just to throw my 2 cents in imho you can't announce yourself as 'Finnish' after getting citizenship.

But you can announce yourself as a 'Finnish citizen'.

Just my 2 cents, too. I can't imagine why I can't say "Olen suomalainen" after I've got the Finnish citizenship. Does a Swedish-speaking Finn say that he or she is not a Finn, but a Swede with Finnish citizenship?

[Kutittaa]

Just to throw my 2 cents in imho you can't announce yourself as 'Finnish' after getting citizenship.

But you can announce yourself as a 'Finnish citizen'.

Just my 2 cents, too. I can't imagine why I can't say "Olen suomalainen" after I've got the Finnish citizenship. Does a Swedish-speaking Finn say that he or she is not a Finn, but a Swede with Finnish citizenship?

The word means different things to different people and I spoke only coming from my own opinion (as stated). So you would respect the fact that I could very well say it if and when I get Finnish citizenship? Because I know a ton of people who would outright reject that statement.

We're going through the same identity crisis in Australia. Many Asians think that they are 'Australian' rather than 'Thai' or 'Japanese'. It's ok to want to be 'Australian' and to have citizenship and have been born and bred in Australia but what does it mean to be an 'Australian'?

The mass overwhelming majority of us would say that you are a descendant from one of the convicts or first English migrants/settlers that came ashore.
Others would actually say that only 'Aboriginals' are 'Australians'. Then others would again disagree because 'Australia' was a noun coined by the 'English' Like I said, controversy, it's everywhere.

We had a television poll once. 87% of Australians voted that they do not recognise Asians/Europeans/etc. etc. etc. as 'Australians' regardless of their citizenship status. And I can bet you that most of the other 13% WERE those people.

[sy]

The word means different things to different people and I spoke only coming from my own opinion (as stated). So you would respect the fact that I could very well say it if and when I get Finnish citizenship? Because I know a ton of people who would outright reject that statement.

We're going through the same identity crisis in Australia. Many Asians think that they are 'Australian' rather than 'Thai' or 'Japanese'. It's ok to want to be 'Australian' and to have citizenship and have been born and bred in Australia but what does it mean to be an 'Australian'?

The mass overwhelming majority of us would say that you are a descendant from one of the convicts or first English migrants/settlers that came ashore.
Others would actually say that only 'Aboriginals' are 'Australians'. Then others would again disagree because 'Australia' was a noun coined by the 'English' Like I said, controversy, it's everywhere.

We had a television poll once. 87% of Australians voted that they do not recognise Asians/Europeans/etc. etc. etc. as 'Australians' regardless of their citizenship status. And I can bet you that most of the other 13% WERE those people.

Of course, the identity issue involves both self-assertion and other's recognizion. I guess the whole similiar discussion has been gone through in USA. Now citizens there just call themselves "Americans". If in some context they want more specifications, then they would use "white Americans", "Asian Americans", "African Americans", or "Latino-Americans(?)", etc. The same goes in Canada.

In Finland, the mainstream regards all citizens simply as "suomalainen". If context required, then some words like "-syntyinen" or "-taustainen" would be used. No one would think that Fatbardhe Hetemaj is not a Finn. Or Lola Wallinkoski (née Odusoga) and Jani Toivola are less than a Finn.

[Kutittaa]

Well the same question was posed to many people in Australia about Australians that aren't actually Australians.

For example, Colin James Hay an extremely famous singer in Australia who wasn't born in Australia despite being well... an Australian. Is regarded by all as an Australian. Russel Crowe is another one. So came the question to Aussies.. well are these (and thousands more) Australians or not? Lots of people on the cricket team aren't Aussies either but everyone says they are.

I think that is why we HAVE terms like 'Finnish-Swedish' not only so people can be proud that they are 'Finnish-Swedish' and not just 'Finnish or Swedish'. Because Finnish-Swedish is basically a nationality. You can't just lump people all into one category. I would call Russel Crowe an Australian because he has done a lot in his field of expertise and much of being an Australian is what you can do for Australia's image. If you get my gist. Not only that but he's lived in Australia for all but 4 years of his life, not including him moving to America for his career. He considers himself an Australian.

Finland has always had a gender equality blah blah system etc. So Suomalainen being the term for someone with Finnish citizenship or a 15 generation Finn (e.g.) being recognised that way well that's great However my wife says the proper name for foreigners who might as well be Finnish is Suomenkansalainen and that both are used quite commonly to determine one or the other, hence the existence of both words.

I also remember watching a very old 1991 video in which an African who spoke native Finnish (although who was quite easily identifiable as African) referred to himself "Terve! Minä olen Abdu, ja minä olen Afrikkalainen. Minä olen asunut Helsingissa 29 vuotta." People describe themselves differently. I for one think that if you are Thai, you are Thai. If you are Finnish you are Finnish. etc. etc. The only thing you can add to that is that you have 'Finnish Citizenship' or 'Thai Citizenship' which I think is a fair point to state. Everyone should be proud of their denomination.

There will always be controversy on denomination. Take for instance the 'outrage' at the new colour coding system for Finnish identity cards. That foreigners have different coloured cards opposed to native Finns. Which I have no problem with at all. It seemed to boil a lot of immigrants' blood though!

[sy]

Well the same question was posed to many people in Australia about Australians that aren't actually Australians.

For example, Colin James Hay an extremely famous singer in Australia who wasn't born in Australia despite being well... an Australian. Is regarded by all as an Australian. Russel Crowe is another one. So came the question to Aussies.. well are these (and thousands more) Australians or not? Lots of people on the cricket team aren't Aussies either but everyone says they are.

I think that is why we HAVE terms like 'Finnish-Swedish' not only so people can be proud that they are 'Finnish-Swedish' and not just 'Finnish or Swedish'. Because Finnish-Swedish is basically a nationality. You can't just lump people all into one category. I would call Russel Crowe an Australian because he has done a lot in his field of expertise and much of being an Australian is what you can do for Australia's image. If you get my gist. Not only that but he's lived in Australia for all but 4 years of his life, not including him moving to America for his career. He considers himself an Australian.

I don't know too much about Australia. In my opinion, Australians are all the people who have Australian citizenship. Russell Crowe is a naturalised citizen of Australia, so he is an Australian now. If not, I would say he is a New Zealander.

A parallel example is Alexandra Salmela. Her book is definitely Finnish. Now she can only be described as a "slovakialaissyntyinen" writer. But once and when she gets Finnish citizenship, she will be called just as a "suomalainen kirjailija".

Don't know what you mean by "Finnish-Swedish". The most used term in English for finlandssvenskar/suomenruotsalaiset is Swedish-speaking Finns (or sometimes in other context, Finland-Swedes, Finnish Swedes, Swedish Finns). Politically they assert that they are Finns and not Swedes.

Finland has always had a gender equality blah blah system etc. So Suomalainen being the term for someone with Finnish citizenship or a 15 generation Finn (e.g.) being recognised that way well that's great However my wife says the proper name for foreigners who might as well be Finnish is Suomenkansalainen and that both are used quite commonly to determine one or the other, hence the existence of both words.

I also remember watching a very old 1991 video in which an African who spoke native Finnish (although who was quite easily identifiable as African) referred to himself "Terve! Minä olen Abdu, ja minä olen Afrikkalainen. Minä olen asunut Helsingissa 29 vuotta." People describe themselves differently. I for one think that if you are Thai, you are Thai. If you are Finnish you are Finnish. etc. etc. The only thing you can add to that is that you have 'Finnish Citizenship' or 'Thai Citizenship' which I think is a fair point to state. Everyone should be proud of their denomination.

There will always be controversy on denomination. Take for instance the 'outrage' at the new colour coding system for Finnish identity cards. That foreigners have different coloured cards opposed to native Finns. Which I have no problem with at all. It seemed to boil a lot of immigrants' blood though!

You can't call a naturalised Finnish citizen a foreigner in Finland anymore. So there don't exist any "foreigners who might as well be Finnish"!

Identity can have many layers. So does the word "suomalainen". A person can say that he/she is "afrikkalainen/aasialainen" by ethnicity, but he/she can also be a "suomalainen" politically. Another example, Sam Vaherlehto is regarded as a Finn/suomalainen and a Finnish dancer, even though he was born in Thailand.

[onkko]

You can't call a naturalised Finnish citizen a foreigner in Finland anymore. So there don't exist any "foreigners who might as well be Finnish"!

Identity can have many layers. So does the word "suomalainen". A person can say that he/she is "afrikkalainen/aasialainen" by ethnicity, but he/she can also be a "suomalainen" politically. Another example, Sam Vaherlehto is regarded as a Finn/suomalainen and a Finnish dancer, even though he was born in Thailand.

I cant? Show me the law what stops me.

Person can say "Im the king of the hill" politically.

[Dibby]

hey.. I am also an Asian. I haven't changed and will not change my citizenship so i have no experience but I heard that the language test is indeed necessary. I did the language test after a year living in Finland, and it wasn't that hard as you don't need perfect score for level 3, if you have taken Suomi class, I think suomi 3 is sufficient to pass the test and there are many good websites to help you practicing for the exam. My friend from Russia managed to pass after 6 months living here. We both did it for getting a job and exam requirement. So, don't be discouraged.. surely after 4 years living with a Finn you would know much more than me

Greets