Manufacturing products vs Patents ?

misnomere · Post by **misnomere** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:08 am

Hi,

If a person saw a cool product on the TV which is pretty cool and not so common in Finland, then, decided to manufacture it and sell it here, Would this be OK? OR would be there any Patent's issues?

Before you answer my question, Tell me: How many bikes are manufactured and sold in Finland? How many shoes are manufactured and sold in Finland? How many trousers are manufactured and sold in Finland? How many email systems around the world? How many napkins, spoons, forks...etc are manufactured and sold around the world?

Do you really think that all those manufacturers care about the original inventors ? I am all for protecting rights of the individual, That's why I want to understand: When it is OK to manufacture a product and sell it on your own? and when you must take approval from the original inventor?

Anyone can help me out ?

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Rip · Post by **Rip** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:33 am

misnomere wrote: If a person saw a cool product on the TV which is pretty cool and not so common in Finland, then, decided to manufacture it and sell it here, Would this be OK? OR would be there any Patent's issues?

Based on that it would seem rather likely (the original idea seem rather new).

Before you answer my question, Tell me: How many bikes are manufactured and sold in Finland? How many shoes are manufactured and sold in Finland? How many trousers are manufactured and sold in Finland? How many email systems around the world? How many napkins, spoons, forks...etc are manufactured and sold around the world?

Do you really think that all those manufacturers care about the original inventors ?

Certainly for example with a bicycle any early patents would have expired long time ago and would have no relevance any more. On the other hand, for example a specific construction of breaks maybe newly developed and covered by current patents. I don't actually remember if there is currently bicycle manufacturing in Finland but if so (and even if there isn't this would be valid for imports), valid patents would need to be respected. If you don't, the patent holder can have your merchandise confiscated and/or make you pay damages and fines.

Respecting patents means that either don't use technology patented by others or there is deal with you (or your subcontractor) and the patent holder for paying royalties.

misnomere · Post by **misnomere** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:50 am

I appreciate your time and you input very much. But I must admit that I am not content with the answer.

I guess the inventors of the forks, garbage bin, nylon bag ...etc are smart enough to know that their inventions will last forever, and therefore I assume that they are willing to pay 3000 Euros or even 10000 Euro per year to protect and keep their patent valid in order to keep collecting royalties from everyone manufactures nylon bags around the world forever. This is completely and utterly wrong. There is no way in hell the manufacturers are paying a penny to the inventors for their basic things.

Yes, I see your point about respecting the patents and I think it applies on chemical formulas or medications or very advanced satellite technology or whatever. But don't tell me that if I saw a nice looking water cup on TV and I want to make the same and sell it here in Finland, then, the owner of the idea will come and sue me, that is just exceedingly unrealistic. Do you understand my point?

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:00 pm

misnomere wrote:I guess the inventors of the forks, garbage bin, nylon bag ...etc are smart enough to know that their inventions will last forever, and therefore I assume that they are willing to pay 3000 Euros or even 10000 Euro per year to protect and keep their patent valid in order to keep collecting royalties from everyone manufactures nylon bags around the world forever. This is completely and utterly wrong. There is no way in hell the manufacturers are paying a penny to the inventors for their basic things.

Indeed. "Patentin voi pitää voimassa enintään 20 vuotta hakemuksen tekemispäivästä." So you can patent all you want and pay all you want, but the patent ceases after 20 years from filing. http://www.prh.fi/en/patentit.html

misnomere wrote:Yes, I see your point about respecting the patents and I think it applies on chemical formulas or medications or very advanced satellite technology or whatever. But don't tell me that if I saw a nice looking water cup on TV and I want to make the same and sell it here in Finland, then, the owner of the idea will come and sue me, that is just exceedingly unrealistic. Do you understand my point?

Cup is already invented, some thousands of years ago. The design might have been registered though: http://www.prh.fi/en/mallioikeudet.html

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:01 pm

misnomere wrote: I guess the inventors of the forks, garbage bin, nylon bag ...etc are smart enough to know that their inventions will last forever, and therefore I assume that they are willing to pay 3000 Euros or even 10000 Euro per year to protect and keep their patent valid in order to keep collecting royalties from everyone manufactures nylon bags around the world forever. This is completely and utterly wrong. There is no way in hell the manufacturers are paying a penny to the inventors for their basic things.

Patents are different from copyright for artistic designs or logos. Patents can not be just renewed, when sufficient time from the original filing has passed, then the patent will expire and then it is free to use for anybody. Companies do renew their patent portfolios, but that means getting patents on newly developed things, so that they would have control or at least partial control of the current cutting edge technology even when the older inventions become freely available for anybody to use.

misnomere · Post by **misnomere** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:18 pm

Thanks again Rip and Upphew.

I think there is no way to make money in this country especially if the person tries to do a small business and avoid pizzerias and kebab.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:30 pm

misnomere wrote:Hi,

If a person saw a cool product on the TV which is pretty cool and not so common in Finland, then, decided to manufacture it and sell it here, Would this be OK? OR would be there any Patent's issues?

If there is a patent (even if it is still pending) you can get into big trouble if you start producing it without a proper licence.
As long as you're not successful, it might remain unnoticed. But as soon as you start to make serious money, others will look into the idea too. And when they take a licence from the patent holder, they can have your business closed and the patent holder can sue your ass of.

Mölkky-Fan · Post by **Mölkky-Fan** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:25 pm

You should firstly check if that product has a patent (or application), and where the patent is applied for. Often, for cost reasons, the patent might not be taken up in Finland (or europe EP)... then you are free to make it and sell it in Finland... just not where the patent is valid or pending. Also maybe the idea was not considered patentable, and then you can design and manufacture your own version freely.

I do not get the link between patents and being impossible to make a business in Finland. Patents are quite global, and most major european and north american countries take them seriously, and others are also starting to take them more seriously.

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