sub contractor regulations in finland

[Upphew]

Anyone can set up their own toiminimi in a few minutes online and then offer their services to other businesses or to private individuals, charging whatever they like plus vat.
Then they do their own vero, kela and yel contributions.
Not really difficult.
I don't really understand your dilemma.

Most don't want to do their own vero etc. and those that do charge for it -> Getting subcontractors ain't so easy/cheap as it is in the Oz.
If you are an employee and belong to an employee union... well you aren't employee anymore if you run business? Union money during unemployment? You aren't unemployed as you are an entrepreneur.

[Pursuivant]

Theres for example a calculator that calculates the "employer fees".
http://www.yrittajat.fi/fi-FI/palkkalaskuri/
So, to pay someone 2000 per month, the employer has to fart up 2700... and the person will be getting around 1700 in hand after the taxes and whatnots are taken off.

Now if you have a "think" of becoming a self-employed, you need to do all this calculating on your own. And if you miss one payment to some instance, you are in bailiff collection and goodbye credit record and all.

[cors187]

Anyone can set up their own toiminimi in a few minutes online and then offer their services to other businesses or to private individuals, charging whatever they like plus vat.
Then they do their own vero, kela and yel contributions.
Not really difficult.
I don't really understand your dilemma.

The problem being an abundance of shady workers all looking for contracts as an employee,it doesnt seem to matter that a contract might have a 10-20 day test period as its like dating, its all good at first as anyone can play the part,but after the 2 parties commit to each other, then you find out all the bad habits etc.

[cors187]

Theres for example a calculator that calculates the "employer fees".
http://www.yrittajat.fi/fi-FI/palkkalaskuri/
So, to pay someone 2000 per month, the employer has to fart up 2700... and the person will be getting around 1700 in hand after the taxes and whatnots are taken off.

I could not get it to work in English but i do understand the employer,s financial duties.

Now if you have a "think" of becoming a self-employed, you need to do all this calculating on your own. And if you miss one payment to some instance, you are in bailiff collection and goodbye credit record and all.

Except for the news of loosing a credit rating, the self employed financial duties cant be that hard to complete.I presume its like a PAYG (pay as you go) Tax form that must be completed over a certain time period.Plus the other financial duties could also be automated.
I cant see why there is not an abundance of these self employed guys looking for work.
If i have to pay 2700e for an employed contract worker every month, then its just as easy for me to give a self employed worker 2700e and receive his wage invoice for that amount.Why isnt there more workers like this , what am i missing?

[Upphew]

If i have to pay 2700e for an employed contract worker every month, then its just as easy for me to give a self employed worker 2700e and receive his wage invoice for that amount.Why isnt there more workers like this , what am i missing?

+marketing
+profit
+occupational healthcare
+insurances (you wreck the scissor lift, your company pays)
+tools (although in construction it isn't unusual that the employee has his own tools too, at least that was the norm couple of decades ago for carpenter)
+accounting
+getting multiple clients (taxman might consider the entrepreneur an employee otherwise)

[Pursuivant]

Why isnt there more workers like this , what am i missing?

Because if there is no work all your payments still run but you have no money. You can't stop the clock that easy. And then when you stop the clock, you still have no money, and theres no healthcare or unemployment benefits or anything public for "rich entrepeneurs". So you think working people are stupid or something and throw away 500 days of dole?

[cors187]

is this why there is 20,000 business's re resisted in estonia and still operating as normal in Fin

[Dick Valentine]

What i mean is that you cannot sub contract in finland unless you have a business number(registered business).

True. It would be work contract if you hired a private person to do the work.

And a hired person is an employee under contract who receives travel allowances,sick leave payment,vacation money and overtime adjustments.Wheres the middle ground in finland.This is why the workers here are lower than average, if your not good enough to run a business then that person doesn't,and is left with only one choice, to milk everything he can from a guy who is running a business.

In Australia everyone is given a chance to become a self employed (sole trader) if they choose.
Example, i had a lot of work on and i knew this kid who was 19.i asked if he wanted to work and he said yes, i told him to apply online using his TFN and ID details and instantly he has become a sole trader who i negotiated a starting wage of $19.50 AUD per hour.

I didnt have to deal with any details at all , at the end of the week i receive an invoice with his costs(which included by agreement ,superannuation money and petrol money).
I dont have to worry if a worker is useless or not ,if they are bad then they dont get work , if the worker is good then i have to give him more money to keep him or he just goes somewhere else , either working for himself or working for another guy.

This ideal drives the wages up in the country , good workers get more and bad workers get no work.

In finland your wages are not driven up by efficiency, they are forced up by some form of collective agreement!!
Good and bad workers equally sharing the benefits.

The middle ground these days here in Finland is that many workers are not in fact paid travel allowances or overtime. What are they going to do? If they raise stink about it they will not have a job anymore ar will end up blacklisted. The unions in the construction industry are toothless at this point. An employee gets hurt and has to go on sick leave? He'll end up fired. Seen that happen couple times myself. What can they do? Plenty of labor available to do construction work, Eastern Europe is full of people who will work for pennies in whatever conditions available.

One of the most rotten and mismanaged industries in Finland.

[cors187]

The most rotten part of business here, and its on salary's in all sectors is that workers have now conformed to 40hrs a week, because look at it this way.

I have a contract estimated at 100hrs workload, to fulfill this contract i need either,
A. 2 workers@40hrs +1W@20hrs
B. 3 workers@33hrs
C. 2 workers@50hrs

In all estimations its more profitable for me to only use a worker up to 40hrs a week.
Its more efficient for me to use less workers on a job, efficiency through repetition, less training time , increased production because of less traffic through the job.

Effectively i have now conformed to a system of giving workers 40hrs a week.

I have been around a long time and i guarantee that if the worker is only given 1 choice(to work 40hrs a week) , then the work environment is capped, the system is capped and his financial income is capped.The worker cannot do all those things that I and about 1 million others take for granted, that is, if i need more money for what ever reason i can work for it, i can make a personal agreement and work extra for the things i need.

[Upphew]

Effectively i have now conformed to a system of giving workers 40hrs a week.

Btw in Oz it seems to be 38/week.

[cors187]

Effectively i have now conformed to a system of giving workers 40hrs a week.

Btw in Oz it seems to be 38/week.

36hrs if your on a union site.

[Pursuivant]

is this why there is 20,000 business's re resisted in estonia and still operating as normal in Fin

Naah, the difference is in taxation. When the Finnish company makes money, the taxman wants 26% of it. Estonian taxman 0%, Finnish owner wants dividends, 28%, Estonian 20%, -Finnish VAT 23%, Estonian 18%, Finnish car tax...

[cors187]

If i have to pay 2700e for an employed contract worker every month, then its just as easy for me to give a self employed worker 2700e and receive his wage invoice for that amount.Why isnt there more workers like this , what am i missing?

+marketing
+profit
+occupational healthcare
+insurances (you wreck the scissor lift, your company pays)
+tools (although in construction it isn't unusual that the employee has his own tools too, at least that was the norm couple of decades ago for carpenter)
+accounting
+getting multiple clients (taxman might consider the entrepreneur an employee otherwise)

I am looking for finlex regulations regarding this highlighted txt.

Working with ex employees, developing trade relations etc.
TMi ,Oy trading partners.This must be a complicated matter because people i talk to are left with questions about the parameters of the legislation.
I have heard some sad stories over the last 3 years about the past employer/employee/future trading partner relationship and would like to take the question to a final result.

Anybody got a straight link into finlex?

[Rosamunda]

I don't think you will find it in Finlex (I might be wrong).

This is Vero's interpretation of the nature of a business versus employment. If Vero thinks a worker is self-employed with the sole aim of avoiding personal income tax, they will consider the person as an employee for tax purposes.

Are you a member of Veronmaksajat?
http://www.veronmaksajat.fi/jasenyys/Ve ... distykset/

I would really recommend joining. We have used them a lot for both personal and business taxation. Great service.