contract question......

[madmtber]

so i have come to the end of a 3 month contract and do not have another yet, however i have heard that if yi dont hear of another contract and the boss doesnt fire you,that the contract becomes permanent.

im going to try and check online, but it would be good to get some personal experiences in this matter and a reply would be much appreciated.

thanks.

[rinso]

If you have a fixed term contract (there is an end date/length of employment mentioned in the contract) then you get a handshake on the last day and it is goodbye.

If you have a contract without fixed end date but with a probation period (a couple of months) than they have to fire you before the end of that period if they don't want you.

[cors187]

so i have come to the end of a 3 month contract and do not have another yet, however i have heard that if yi dont hear of another contract and the boss doesnt fire you,that the contract becomes permanent.

im going to try and check online, but it would be good to get some personal experiences in this matter and a reply would be much appreciated.

thanks.

The contract cannot become permanent,but i would seem to think that by "you still working after the end date""that your boss and yourself have agreed to extend the contract".
You being at work proves there is an agreement and you are entitled to every detail of the former contract, which is mutually extended.
I think the law will say that you are not working without terms and agreements,but you have the terms and agreements of the last contract and another end date should be affixed.

[Rick1]

knowing the finnish art of communication, probably your entrance key does not work anymore the first day after the contract ends. Or they will ask at the end of the week why you are still there. And the handshake of Rinso has to be mentioned in the contract.

[rinso]

And the handshake of Rinso has to be mentioned in the contract.

Indeed, nobody might give a damn when you leave. But they will be really surprised if you show up the next day.

The contract cannot become permanent,but i would seem to think that by "you still working after the end date""that your boss and yourself have agreed to extend the contract".
You being at work proves there is an agreement and you are entitled to every detail of the former contract, which is mutually extended.

They can blame internal miscommunication. If you didn't ask what would happen at the end of the contract, you're also partly to blame.
On the other hand if the situation continues for several weeks, cors might have a point. (you'll find out when it is time to pay your salary.)
But if they really don't have any use for you, they can still kick you out under the normal conditions.

[Pursuivant]

but you have the terms and agreements of the last contract and another end date should be affixed.

No you don't want an end date, or you want to be the first one to go when the next YT round starts?

[Rip]

EMPLOYMENT CONTRACTS ACT

Chapter 6
General provisions on the termination of an employment contract
--
Section 5
Tacit extension of the contractual relationship

If the employer allows the employee to continue to work after expiry of the contract or notice period, the contractual relationship shall be deemed to have been extended indefinitely.

[cors187]

EMPLOYMENT CONTRACTS ACT

Chapter 6
General provisions on the termination of an employment contract
--
Section 5
Tacit extension of the contractual relationship

If the employer allows the employee to continue to work after expiry of the contract or notice period, the contractual relationship shall be deemed to have been extended indefinitely.

Unless the case is brought to court these contract regulations are merely standard working conditions.
But if it was possible to highlight the case within the law court, the court would ask both parties to agree to a fixed date of the contract ending.
An indefinite contract or being classed as an indefinite worker is merely a 2 week minimum contract by the law, its more suitable for companies to have indefinite workers coming from the already binding Terms and agreements that you were first contracted too.

Section 2
General provisions concerning periods of notice
An employment contract which has been concluded for an indefinite period or is otherwise valid for an indefinite period is terminated by giving notice to the other contracting party.
The agreed notice period may not exceed six months. If a longer period has been agreed on, a six-month notice period shall be observed instead. The agreed employer's notice period may be longer than that of the employee. If the agreed notice period to be observed by the employer is shorter than that of the employee, the latter is entitled to observe the notice period agreed for the employer.
If an employment contract may be terminated without notice, the employment relationship shall end at the close of the working day or working shift during which the notice has been given to the other contracting party.
Section 3
General notice periods
Unless otherwise agreed, the notice periods to be observed by the employer are the following if the employment relationship has continued uninterruptedly:
1) 14 days, if the employment relationship has continued for up to one year;
2) one month, if the employment relationship has continued for more than one year but no more than four years;
3) two months, if the employment relationship has continued for more than four years but no more than eight years;
4) four months, if the employment relationship has continued for more than eight years but no more than 12 years;
5) six months, if the employment relationship has continued for more than 12 years.

There is less protection in Finnish Law being classed as an indefinite worker working from an expired contract still under the terms and agreements of the expired contract.
Its better to have a Fixed term contract!!!!!

[cors187]

so i have come to the end of a 3 month contract and do not have another yet, however i have heard that if yi dont hear of another contract and the boss doesnt fire you,that the contract becomes permanent.

im going to try and check online, but it would be good to get some personal experiences in this matter and a reply would be much appreciated.

thanks.

i know you have used the term permanent , but the term needed is indefinite.In which case its really quite a good contract term for both parties.The least amount of play time is given to both parties.

Just a heads up if your looking for security.Its better to secure the next fixed term contract before the current contract runs out.

[cors187]

EMPLOYMENT CONTRACTS ACT

Thanks for the link, it seems life in finland has a maximum guarantee of 6months,but you have to invest 12 years to get it,lol.

[Pursuivant]

Its better to have a Fixed term contract!!!!!

There are two workers, there is only need for one. Who goes? The fixed term contract ends - bye bye. No need for any kind of negotiations.

[cors187]

Its better to have a Fixed term contract!!!!!

There are two workers, there is only need for one. Who goes? The fixed term contract ends - bye bye. No need for any kind of negotiations.

Well i am paying out the worker who i need to give less money too, regardless of negotiations.In fact extended negotiations may reveal greater opportunity for all parties.

[Pursuivant]

Well, the thing is, this is Finland, so the "no end date" contract is what is expected. Banks give loans to people who are "employed permanently" not to people who know the day when they have no more work. Also, from a foreigners point of view, KELA is very nasty giving coverage, "intention to stay over 2 years" means "permanent contract" so if you have end date - thats the day you die so your KELA card dies accordingly. Having a fixed contract, even to a landlord means you are untrustworthy beyond that date - you want a rental contract - thats also without end date...

[cors187]

Ive seen some things that you mentioned,but just to clarify,
An out of date fixed term contract with no current contract does not win me over in terms of should i classify that person as permanent.Indefinite is the right term as it shows
in·def·i·nite/inˈdefənit/
Adjective:

Lasting for an unknown length of time:
Not clearly expressed or defined; vague: "their status remains indefinite".

On certain scales it is considered the opposite to permanent
per·ma·nent
   [pur-muh-nuhnt]
adjective
1.
existing perpetually; everlasting, especially without significant change.

The main opposition is that "permanent" shows clear expression of detail and is defined as everlasting without change, yet "indefinite" show a lack of definition and vagueness and an unknown detail.


I will tell you what would impress me as permanent, as to the contract or employment details stating that "bath and wells" is employed here since 00.00.00 and will continue to be employed here as a permanent worker.Which i might add is a contract with a fixed term, the term of his working age.

I also seem to agree with showing 2 years of history to be considered "permanent",ive lived with it in Aus so it sits well with me.

[Pursuivant]

The word in Finnish actually used is "perpetual", as opposed to "definite term" Think of it like a registration paper, you want one for a motorcycle, not one for a car and worry about MOT...