Thinking of moving to Finland

[Claxic]

This just came up tonight so I have not done any research into cost of living, pay, expense to move, or jobs. We are 27 with no kids and have moved across the country because we wanted something different 4 years ago. My wife is a high school(age 14-18) math teacher who is not satisfied with the education system in America and joked about moving to a EU country. I have been a restaurant manager for many years and would follow her anywhere. Do you have any advice for me? any sites I could look up info? Also if you think we are crazy please tell us.

[Pursuivant]

Also if you think we are crazy please tell us.

[rinso]

This just came up tonight so I have not done any research into cost of living, pay, expense to move,

This is not important. If you make a life changing decision it's about the quality of life, not money.

or jobs

This is crucial.
No job, no residence permit.
If you search the forum you'll see that without (nearly) fluent Finnish you'll have little chance to find a job in your fields.

Also if you think we are crazy please tell us.

It's not crazy to come to Finland but to think it will be easy is.

[Adrian42]

and joked about moving to a EU country.

Why Finland?

In the UK or Ireland you wouldn't have the language barrier you'll have here in Finland.

[tuulen]

Also if you think we are crazy please tell us.

You are crazy, and beyond that are the legal requirements about moving to Finland, including Residence Permit.

And ...

Your wife's mathematical qualifications could be meaningless in Finland, without further qualification.

Your skills as a restaurant manager could be meaningless in Finland, without your speaking fluent Finnish.

And, as an English speaker, your learning to speak Finnish fluently could require years of intensive study.

[Upphew]

Also if you think we are crazy please tell us.

You are crazy, and beyond that are the legal requirements about moving to Finland, including Residence Permit.

And ...

Your wife's mathematical qualifications could be meaningless in Finland, without further qualification.

Your skills as a restaurant manager could be meaningless in Finland, without your speaking fluent Finnish.

And, as an English speaker, your learning to speak Finnish fluently could require years of intensive study.

I'd say they are not crazy if they inform themselves before they decide to move. If they already have decided...

Mathematical qualifications are probably quite universal, teaching on the other hand...

You don't need to speak Finnish in Finland... if you are so good at something that people value your skills over your lack of skills. How well management skills translate to environment, where the managed people won't necessarily speak or understand manager's language? Or suppliers? Or officials? Legislation isn't fully translated either.

Today's meaningless tidbits: there are, percentage wise, about 2.5x more Spanish speakers in USA than Swedish speakers in Finland. Swedish is official language here.

[tuulen]

Mathematical qualifications are probably quite universal, teaching on the other hand...

Mathematical qualifications indeed are universal. I have worked with engineers from around the world.

But the question is, could the OP's wife be qualified to teach in Finland? Mathematics in English?

You don't need to speak Finnish in Finland... if you are so good at something that people value your skills over your lack of skills.

OK, but that comes down to actually getting employment, if somebody could actually be so good at something.

[Jukka Aho]

My wife is a high school(age 14-18) math teacher who is not satisfied with the education system in America and joked about moving to a EU country.

Not sure how that would work out without learning another language fluent enough to actually teach in it. As far as Finland goes, that would be Finnish, or in some localities Swedish (with the obvious limitations related to it being a minority language only spoken by 5% of the population.) There are some “international” schools in Finland whose teaching language is English, but only a few.

Generally speaking, Finnish teachers — at least those aiming to get a regular job in a school — require a Master’s degree with a major in pedagogy. (I have received teaching from substitute teachers who did not meet that requirement but I’m not sure how strict they are with the requirements these days.)

See the website of the Finnish National Board of Education for more information about qualifications. I guess your wife could email them and ask if it is possible to convert her degree to a Finnish one somehow, perhaps by taking some additional courses, without having to start from scratch.

In Finland, the compulsory comprehensive school starts from the age of 7 and ends at the age of 16; usually after 9 years in school. Having completed the compulsory basic education, students choose either vocational schooling (to become car mechanics, bus drivers, plumbers etc.) or lukio, a three-year upper secondary school which prepares students for university-level studies and culminates in the so-called matriculation exam. You can view a chart of the system here. You wife might also want to take a look at the PDFs offered on the sidebar.

The comprehensive school used to be divided into lower grades (6 years; teaching carried out by class teachers in most subjects) and upper grades (3 years; all teaching done by subject teachers) but that division has now been abolished and blurred... to a degree, at least.

Since your wife has been teaching students from the age of 14 to the age of 18 years, the equivalent for her in the Finnish system would be teaching in the upper grades of comprehensive school (grades 7—9, students aged roughly 13 to 16 years) and in lukio (students aged roughly 16 to 19 years.)

Your spouse can study the curricula of the Finnish comprehensive school and lukio here (dowloadable PDF files, English translations of the original Finnish and Swedish ones):

• National Core Curriculum for Basic Education 2004
• National Core Curriculum for Upper Secondary Schools 2003

In case further studies would be required to qualify as a teacher, teacher’s training is available in several universities around the country. Here are the options for those studying to become a teacher in mathematics:

• Teachers’s training in mathematics, physics, chemistry, geography, and biology in Finnish universities

See also the SOOL (Teacher Student Union of Finland) English pages here.

I’m not sure which discussion forums teachers tend to frequent. I only found a couple of very generic ones which are not particularly active:

• opettaja.tv (YLE)
• Opettaminen (Suomi24)

There’s also a separate organization for teachers of mathematics, MAOL. The site features a brief description of them in English as well.

As for managing restaurants, the keyword is ravintola-ala. But entrepreneurship is entrepreneurship so I guess qualifications are more about how you can actually run the business than what kind of a degree you have. (Note: In Finland people are expected to live on their wages. Tipping is viewed a slippery slope to a society where corruption, panhandling and tax evasion is the norm. So people pay the list prices and generally only tip if they have received exceptionally good service, if even then. No under-the-minimum-wage waitress serfs for those who run restaurants; they need to pay them actual wages.)

[Pursuivant]

My wife is a high school(age 14-18) math teacher who is not satisfied with the education system in America and joked about moving to a EU country.

Just for a joke, she can try to "pass high school maths" http://files.snstatic.fi/hs/2012/3/yo/M ... _pitka.pdf
google translate should help with the written problems, the cheat sheet is here http://files.snstatic.fi/hs/2012/3/yo/K12prat.pdf

[Jukka Aho]

My wife is a high school(age 14-18) math teacher who is not satisfied with the education system in America and joked about moving to a EU country.

Just for a joke, she can try to "pass high school maths" http://files.snstatic.fi/hs/2012/3/yo/M ... _pitka.pdf

Here’s the same test in Swedish:

http://hbl.fi/sites/default/files/matematik_lang_0.pdf

Google Translate might do a better job with the Swedish questions than the Finnish ones due to Swedish being an Indo-European language and much closer to English than Finnish.

[Adrian42]

You are crazy, and beyond that are the legal requirements about moving to Finland, including Residence Permit.

And ...

Your wife's mathematical qualifications could be meaningless in Finland, without further qualification.

Your skills as a restaurant manager could be meaningless in Finland, without your speaking fluent Finnish.

And, as an English speaker, your learning to speak Finnish fluently could require years of intensive study.

I'd say they are not crazy if they inform themselves before they decide to move. If they already have decided...

Mathematical qualifications are probably quite universal, teaching on the other hand...

You don't need to speak Finnish in Finland... if you are so good at something that people value your skills over your lack of skills. How well management skills translate to environment, where the managed people won't necessarily speak or understand manager's language? Or suppliers? Or officials? Legislation isn't fully translated either.

As was already noted the residence permit would be the first obstacle where it's hard to see how they could get that one. But even if they had EU citizenship it would be tough for them to find any work at all.

I know several people with a Masters degree who are unemployed but could easily get a job if only they could speak Finnish fluently.

The wife of the OP is a math teacher. If her qualification is accepted in Finland (which is not clear to me) she would have only a very limited choice of possible workplaces without speaking Finnish.

The OP himself is a restaurant manager. Zero chances getting such a job without speaking Finnish. Additionally, in this field many of his past experiences would be useless due to the huge cultural differences between the US and Finland.

[time traveler]

The timing of your post and the fact that you had also moved 4 years ago suggest this may be a case of post-election blues. If so, you should first read this article on Move to Canada? It's not that easy. For the Finnish version of the same obstacles plus more, click here.

[Claxic]

Thank you for the comments. Alot of information to take in. Also no this is not the post election blues. I dont care who runs this country and as to moving 4 years ago...my wife and I get bored easily.

[jamerci]

Hmmm.. having moved to Finland about 16 months ago from central Texas, I would have to think long and hard about doing this again. I absolutely LOVE it here, even the winters. The quiet, peaceful countryside is so gorgeous. I have even adjusted to the quiet of the people here, and have learned to sit for at least 15 minutes in a room of family without saying a word. My Finnish is still primitive, so that is actually not too difficult at times. I just practice listening.

Having a job, or being able to be employed is crucial. You will have to learn Finnish to get any sort of job, even those that want English. Trust me, you are better off learning Finnish. It is an interesting challenge that will prove you are serious about making this move!! Until you can do that, you will need a good chunk of change -- the cost of living is definitely higher in so many ways. If I was not married to a wonderful Finnish man, I would not be able to survive yet.

With that being said, if you are going to move to Finland (have you visited yet?) you will need to prepare for it. It isn't something you can do like a cross-country move in the US. Finnish classes are a must, even if they are very hard to find. There are some online courses but they will not help you much when it comes to thinking on your feet. Only conversational practice will help with that. I would also start to eliminate anything from your household goods that you don't absolutely need. Shipping from the US is very expensive and most Finnish housing doesn't have the kind of space you are probably used to. Life is simpler here, you don't need as many things and certainly you don't need as many clothes! Learn to eat lots of fish and potatoes. Break the habit of fast food restaurants like Taco Bell or McDonald's - they either don't exist or are outrageously expensive! You can stream Finnish radio, and it will help you get used to the language.

No matter what you do, I wish you good luck. I would do it again, yes... but would probably do a few things different in my packing and departure routine.

[Bulldoggi]

The timing of your post and the fact that you had also moved 4 years ago suggest this may be a case of post-election blues.

I can't imagine it would be "post election blues," as most of the people threatening to leave the country or secede from the country are doing so because they think Obama is a "socialist." If that's the reason for leaving America, Finland is a bad choice...