Question of EC Long term Residence Permit

[cors187]

I just read the
Directive 2011/51/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 May 2011
I guess the idea is-
The EC permit is trying to offer a standard in the Euro community at large.
Its basically offering employment opportunities the same as a national citizen has in all EC member states(unless restricted by Employment policy and national legislation).
Its offers a system of moving between member states.
I think this EC permit is a forerunner for multi transit living in the whole EU.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 109:EN:NOT
( consolidated version)Every part that could be considered to be of benefit i pasted below.

Article 3
Scope
3. This Directive shall apply without prejudice to more favourable provisions of:
(a) bilateral and multilateral agreements between the Community or the Community and its Member States, on the one hand, and third countries, on the other;
(b) bilateral agreements already concluded between a Member State and a third country before the date of entry into force of this Directive;
(c) the European Convention on Establishment of 13 December 1955, the European Social Charter of 18 October 1961, the amended European Social Charter of 3 May 1987, the European Convention on the Legal Status of Migrant Workers of 24 November 1977, paragraph 11 of the Schedule to the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees of 28 July 1951, as amended by the Protocol signed in New York on 31 January 1967, and the European Agreement on Transfer of Responsibility for Refugees of 16 October 1980.

Article 8
Long-term resident's EC residence permit
2. Member States shall issue a long-term resident's EC residence permit to long-term residents. The permit shall be valid at least for five years; it shall, upon application if required, be automatically renewable on expiry.

Article 9
Withdrawal or loss of status
2. By way of derogation from paragraph 1(c), Member States may provide that absences exceeding 12 consecutive months or for specific or exceptional reasons shall not entail withdrawal or loss of status.

In any case after six years of absence from the territory of the Member State that granted long-term resident status the person concerned shall no longer be entitled to maintain his/her long term resident status in the said Member State.
By way of derogation from the second subparagraph the Member State concerned may provide that for specific reasons the long-term resident shall maintain his/her status in the said Member State in case of absences for a period exceeding six years.

7. Where the withdrawal or loss of long-term resident status does not lead to removal, the Member State shall authorise the person concerned to remain in its territory if he/she fulfils the conditions provided for in its national legislation and/or if he/she does not constitute a threat to public policy or public security.

Article 11
Equal treatment
1. Long-term residents shall enjoy equal treatment with nationals as regards:
(a) access to employment and self-employed activity, provided such activities do not entail even occasional involvement in the exercise of public authority, and conditions of employment and working conditions, including conditions regarding dismissal and remuneration;
(b) education and vocational training, including study grants in accordance with national law;
(c) recognition of professional diplomas, certificates and other qualifications, in accordance with the relevant national procedures;
(d) social security, social assistance and social protection as defined by national law;
(e) tax benefits;
(f) access to goods and services and the supply of goods and services made available to the public and to procedures for obtaining housing;
(g) freedom of association and affiliation and membership of an organisation representing workers or employers or of any organisation whose members are engaged in a specific occupation, including the benefits conferred by such organisations, without prejudice to the national provisions on public policy and public security;
(h) free access to the entire territory of the Member State concerned, within the limits provided for by the national legislation for reasons of security.
2. With respect to the provisions of paragraph 1, points (b), (d), (e), (f) and (g), the Member State concerned may restrict equal treatment to cases where the registered or usual place of residence of the long-term resident, or that of family members for whom he/she claims benefits, lies within the territory of the Member State concerned.
3. Member States may restrict equal treatment with nationals in the following cases:
(a) Member States may retain restrictions to access to employment or self-employed activities in cases where, in accordance with existing national or Community legislation, these activities are reserved to nationals, EU or EEA citizens;
(b) Member States may require proof of appropriate language proficiency for access to education and training. Access to university may be subject to the fulfilment of specific educational prerequisites.
4. Member States may limit equal treatment in respect of social assistance and social protection to core benefits.
4a. As far as the Member State which granted international protection is concerned, paragraphs 3 and 4 shall be without prejudice to Directive 2004/83/EC.
5. Member States may decide to grant access to additional benefits in the areas referred to in paragraph 1.
Member States may also decide to grant equal treatment with regard to areas not covered in paragraph 1.

Article 13
More favourable national provisions
Member States may issue residence permits of permanent or unlimited validity on terms that are more favourable than those laid down by this Directive. Such residence permits shall not confer the right of residence in the other Member States as provided by Chapter III of this Directive.

CHAPTER III RESIDENCE IN THE OTHER MEMBER STATES
Article 14
Principle
1. A long-term resident shall acquire the right to reside in the territory of Member States other than the one which granted him/her the long-term residence status, for a period exceeding three months, provided that the conditions set out in this chapter are met.
2. A long-term resident may reside in a second Member State on the following grounds:
(a) exercise of an economic activity in an employed or self-employed capacity;
(b) pursuit of studies or vocational training;
(c) other purposes.
3. In cases of an economic activity in an employed or self-employed capacity referred to in paragraph 2(a), Member States may examine the situation of their labour market and apply their national procedures regarding the requirements for, respectively, filling a vacancy, or for exercising such activities.
For reasons of labour market policy, Member States may give preference to Union citizens, to third-country nationals, when provided for by Community legislation, as well as to third-country nationals who reside legally and receive unemployment benefits in the Member State concerned.
4. By way of derogation from the provisions of paragraph 1, Member States may limit the total number of persons entitled to be granted right of residence, provided that such limitations are already set out for the admission of third-country nationals in the existing legislation at the time of the adoption of this Directive.
5. This chapter does not concern the residence of long-term residents in the territory of the Member States:
(a) as employed workers posted by a service provider for the purposes of cross-border provision of services;
(b) as providers of cross-border services.
Member States may decide, in accordance with national law, the conditions under which long-term residents who wish to move to a second Member State with a view to exercising an economic activity as seasonal workers may reside in that Member State. Cross-border workers may also be subject to specific provisions of national law.
6. This Chapter is without prejudice to the relevant Community legislation on social security with regard to third-country nationals.

Article 15
Conditions for residence in a second Member State
1. As soon as possible and no later than three months after entering the territory of the second Member State, the long-term resident shall apply to the competent authorities of that Member State for a residence permit.
Member States may accept that the long-term resident submits the application for a residence permit to the competent authorities of the second Member State while still residing in the territory of the first Member State.
2. Member States may require the persons concerned to provide evidence that they have:
(a) stable and regular resources which are sufficient to maintain themselves and the members of their families, without recourse to the social assistance of the Member State concerned. For each of the categories referred to in Article 14(2), Member States shall evaluate these resources by reference to their nature and regularity and may take into account the level of minimum wages and pensions;
(b) sickness insurance covering all risks in the second Member State normally covered for its own nationals in the Member State concerned.
3. Member States may require third-country nationals to comply with integration measures, in accordance with national law.
This condition shall not apply where the third-country nationals concerned have been required to comply with integration conditions in order to be granted long-term resident status, in accordance with the provisions of Article 5(2).
Without prejudice to the second subparagraph, the persons concerned may be required to attend language courses.
4. The application shall be accompanied by documentary evidence, to be determined by national law, that the persons concerned meets the relevant conditions, as well as by their long-term resident permit and a valid travel document or their certified copies.
The evidence referred to in the first subparagraph may also include documentation with regard to appropriate accommodation.
In particular:
(a) in case of exercise of an economic activity the second Member State may require the persons concerned to provide evidence:
(i) if they are in an employed capacity, that they have an employment contract, a statement by the employer that they are hired or a proposal for an employment contract, under the conditions provided for by national legislation. Member States shall determine which of the said forms of evidence is required;
(ii) if they are in a self-employed capacity, that they have the appropriate funds which are needed, in accordance with national law, to exercise an economic activity in such capacity, presenting the necessary documents and permits;
(b) in case of study or vocational training the second Member State may require the persons concerned to provide evidence of enrolment in an accredited establishment in order to pursue studies or vocational training.

Article 19a
Amendments of long-term resident’s EU residence permits
1. Where a long-term resident’s EU residence permit contains the remark referred to in Article 8(4), and where, in accordance with the relevant international instruments or national law, responsibility for the international protection of the long-term resident is transferred to a second Member State before that Member State issues the long-term resident’s EU residence permit referred to in Article 8(5), the second Member State shall ask the Member State which has issued the long- term resident’s EU residence permit to amend that remark accordingly.
2. Where a long-term resident is granted international protection in the second Member State before that Member State issued the long-term resident’s EU residence permit referred to in Article 8(5), that Member State shall ask the Member State which has issued the long-term resident’s EU residence permit to amend it in order to enter the remark referred to in Article 8(4).
3. Following the request referred to in paragraphs 1 and 2, the Member State which has issued the long-term resident’s EU residence permit shall issue the amended long-term resident’s EU residence permit no later than 3 months after receiving the request from the second Member State.

Article 21
Treatment granted in the second Member State
1. As soon as they have received the residence permit provided for by Article 19 in the second Member State, long-term residents shall in that Member State enjoy equal treatment in the areas and under the conditions referred to in Article 11.
2. Long-term residents shall have access to the labour market in accordance with the provisions of paragraph 1.

[cors187]

1.you can change jobs classifications to anything(EU).

I do not understand what you mean with "(EU)" here. You can't work or stay in another EU country with the EC permit - and you can do what ever work you want with a permanent national permit as well, which also is of course valid until further notice.

I can see that it offers a benefit for some of those staying extended periods of time outside Finland (as it is not so easily revoked if you still stay within EU), but otherwise I'm still too wondering about the 'point'.

i guess it means that once you are allowed to reside in the second member state , you receive instant status(national legislation pending), which is a big bonus for hard line business types.

[cors187]

Any of you know any more (official ) information regarding this EC permit,( except wasting 160 euros) ?

(taking in to account National Legislation and Employment policy in every member state), it looks like you can chase jobs in the EU and continue to reside in and out of those countries for the term of your natural life.That is worth 160euro mate.
Example being you started in Finland, you found your way into edit#country2, then the edit# country3 and then 10 years later you came back to Finland, all those years having equal treatment.

[Rip]

When travelling is mentioned regarding other residence permits, isn't that always limited to the Schengen area?

I could be wrong on that, but it is possible that this makes a difference when travelling to EU countries that are not part of the Schengen area, like the UK.

So it says... Interesting, you can travel freely within Schengen AND other EU, but can't even enter Schengen zone from outside EU.

[cors187]

Hi,

the only countries that does not accept EC long term residence permit are UK,Denmark and Ireland.

I did find that info
(25) In accordance with Articles 1 and 2 of the Protocol on the position of the United Kingdom and Ireland, annexed to the Treaty on European Union and to the Treaty establishing the European Community, and without prejudice to Article 4 of the said Protocol, these Member States are not participating in the adoption of this Directive and are not bound by or subject to its application.

(26) In accordance with Articles 1 and 2 of the Protocol on the position of Denmark, annexed to the Treaty on European Union and the Treaty establishing the European Community, Denmark does not take part in the adoption of this Directive, and is not bound by it or subject to its application,

[megastar]

Any of you know any more (official ) information regarding this EC permit,( except wasting 160 euros) ?

(taking in to account National Legislation and Employment policy in every member state), it looks like you can chase jobs in the EU and continue to reside in and out of those countries for the term of your natural life.That is worth 160euro mate.
Example being you started in Finland, you found your way into edit#country2, then the edit# country3 and then 10 years later you came back to Finland, all those years having equal treatment.

Hey Cors187, thanks for the info. It sounds great to hear your summary. In practice, i think this is not the case. I have lost two offers from Belgium and Germany , since both the embassies said i need to apply for work permit before i go. Since the employer is not interested to wait. and they said NO. I am pissed off

Do you think the embassies didn't consider because of its country specific reasons ?

[Rip]

Hey Cors187, thanks for the info. It sounds great to hear your summary. In practice, i think this is not the case. I have lost two offers from Belgium and Germany , since both the embassies said i need to apply for work permit before i go. Since the employer is not interested to wait. and they said NO. I am pissed off

Do you think the embassies didn't consider because of its country specific reasons ?

Well, it is mot supposed to mean even in theory that you can live and work with it in other member states

[Adrian42]

I have lost two offers from Belgium and Germany , since both the embassies said i need to apply for work permit before i go. Since the employer is not interested to wait. and they said NO. I am pissed off

Why don't you apply for Finnish citizenship?

That would give you the suable right to live and work in all 27 EU countries.

[cors187]

Any of you know any more (official ) information regarding this EC permit,( except wasting 160 euros) ?

(taking in to account National Legislation and Employment policy in every member state), it looks like you can chase jobs in the EU and continue to reside in and out of those countries for the term of your natural life.That is worth 160euro mate.
Example being you started in Finland, you found your way into edit#country2, then the edit# country3 and then 10 years later you came back to Finland, all those years having equal treatment.

Hey Cors187, thanks for the info. It sounds great to hear your summary. In practice, i think this is not the case. I have lost two offers from Belgium and Germany , since both the embassies said i need to apply for work permit before i go. Since the employer is not interested to wait. and they said NO. I am pissed off

Do you think the embassies didn't consider because of its country specific reasons ?

Hey the permit doesnt allow you to supersede the employment policy.
I cant understand that bogus crap, as far as im concerned an estonian or swedish guy can come to finland and get a written work contract , take the contract into some office and get a fin tax number,whether the tax is at 35% or other depends on details.
I came here for a holiday in 2011 from russia, being an aussie i didnt need to get an entry visa.i started work the exact next day,i received my tax card in the mail 35% tax and worked 90days then left the schengen territory.

I dont see why you dont have the same rights as an estonian that comes here for work, if the work contract is good then they get the social Fin ID number aswell as the taxcard and live here.

Am i missing somrthing here?

[cors187]

Do you think the embassies didn't consider because of its country specific reasons ?

It does say that the member state has rights to its own decisions.

[cors187]

Since the employer is not interested to wait.

i might feel a bit bad telling you its value for money when reality is its just a best wishes permit that everyone can choose to ignore

[cors187]

Do you think the embassies didn't consider because of its country specific reasons ?

Another thing i thought about is bureaucracy.Not that the EC articles can show it.But its possible that because its an EC approved permit that it may fall into a category that is immediately accepted.
I cant give you an example of the permit but i can give you an example of acceptable transparent documents.

Went to buy food at S market and signed up for a S debit card.They took a photo copy of my kela card and Resident card.
I got a letter in the mail saying they require more proof of identity, and to go to the S bank admin desk(whatever).

I showed the woman my passport,kela card ,residence ID, Fin population extract and Social number,Tax-card,Apartment rent agreement,work contract,everything i had really.
They rejected the passport as sufficient ID because it was classified in a different category "according to European laws".
What was sufficient was a Finnish ID number that can be issued by the Polisi, not a big deal only 50 or 70 euro(i forget).
Anyway it turns out i wasn't eligible for a Finnish ID yet as my work contract had the "bath&wells death date" or "end of contract date", that was only for 12 months.

In some cases and i am sure its everywhere in Europe is the ability to have an acceptable category document, maybe this permit carries such a category listing for participating member states.

[prasadh_r]

The link on german federal for immigration's websites states the following:
Residence permit for third-country nationals who have acquired the "permanent EC resident" title in another EU Member State

This residence permit will be granted to a third-country national who wishes to live in Germany for longer than three months. To obtain this, he or she must

have a "permanent EC resident" title from another Member State of the European Union; except the United Kingdom, Ireland and Denmark, to which the directive concerning the status of third-country nationals who are long-term residents does not apply
have a valid travel document that is recognised in Germany
hold proof that he independently assures his livelihood and has adequate health and long-term care insurance
intended employment or planned course of study.
http://www.bamf.de/EN/DasBAMF/Aufgaben/ ... -node.html

So you shouldnt have had to apply for work permit to move to germany.

[aijazzz]

An example from Italy below,

http://www.poliziadistato.it/articolo/10723/

EC long-term residence permit entitles you to:

enter Italy without a visa;
work;
enjoy social benefits and social services supplied by the Italian government;
participate in local public life.
If you hold an EC long-term residence permit issued by another member State, you are entitled to reside in Italy for a period exceeding 3 months on the following grounds:

regular employment or self-employment;
attendance of courses of study or vocational training;
residence, provided that you prove to have stable and sufficient funds (your income must be over twice the minimum wage exempted from national health care contributions) and that you are covered by a private health insurance for the duration of your stay in Italy. In this case, you obtain a residence permit valid for Italy, renewable on expiration (circular letter of 16 Feb. 2010), while your family members obtain a residence permit for family purposes.