Canadian Moving to Finland

[cors187]

I never meet a fin outside of Finland, but if you ask me if i could point them out, i would say yes, they are the ones having the extended business meeting talking about rubbish, and the low production worker who goes missing after lunch.

Right, not that you are wrong but the question that begs to be answered is in which way do those characteristics set Finns apart from the rest of the people? Gibberish business meetings and blue collar labor skipping work hardly set Finns apart.

I guess my answer is that they on average are good at it, so to my eyes they seem noticeable.
I notice it and it intrigues me, so i studied somewhat the concept and basically came to the conclusion that the language was a preceptor of the condition.

[Oho]

OT

[Sami-Is-Boss]

The issue is probably from the Canadian side. Russians can definitely hold dual nationality

[Upphew]

The issue is probably from the Canadian side. Russians can definitely hold dual nationality

Yeah, but you still have to tell the Canadian authorities that you were just kidding with the application to get rid of the Canadian citizenship.

[jrslv]

You will hear very little from the school unless they consider something "wrong", and a foreign child sitting mute in the classroom is considered normal.

Here in Canada, we have government-sponsored ESL (English as a Second Language) schools for adults. Every elementary school has an ESL program as well. Several times a week, immigrant kids are taken to another class for a couple of hours - specifically to learn English. The classes are small and the attitude towards kids is wonderful - very supportive and very encouraging.

If she's outgoing and makes friends, she will be able understand and sound close to a native teenager in about 2-3 years.

Yes, she is outgoing, but I don't think she is very adept at learning languages. But given the similarities between Russian and Finnish - both are highly inflected languages - and the fact that she already speaks two languages, it might be not as hard for her.

I don't really care for the general business atmosphere in Finland, as I am not gonna be doing business there. All I need is a safe place to park my family, while I am away working.

Don't you have language courses for newcommers - outside of school?

[Adrian42]

But given the similarities between Russian and Finnish

WTF?

Russian and English are pretty closely related, but regarding grammar and vocabulary Finnish is very different from both.

and the fact that she already speaks two languages, it might be not as hard for her.

Speaking several languages (at least your native language and English) is the norm for people coming to Finland, but you will rarely find people saying Finnish would be easy to learn (except perhaps for Estonians, since Estonian and Finnish are very closely related).

All I need is a safe place to park my family, while I am away working.

What's wrong with moving to the UK?

[jrslv]

But given the similarities between Russian and Finnish

Russian and English are pretty closely related, but regarding grammar and vocabulary Finnish is very different from both.

Well, the concept of word inflections and cases is very familiar (Russian has 6 of them). I've started learning Finnish just recently and, so far, everything looks quite reasonable. Yes, it is complex, but I think I am developing a feel for these constructs.

All I need is a safe place to park my family, while I am away working.

What's wrong with moving to the UK?

Well, I have my own reasons... we have already a guy who is in charge of the European market. For me, moving to the UK would be inserting myself right in the middle of his territory, so I can't do it for "political" reasons. Finland, on the other hand, is much closer to Moscow, but it's still in the EU. So, if I ever assume the responsibility for the European market in my company, I would be able to do it from Finland as well.

[Adrian42]

But given the similarities between Russian and Finnish

Russian and English are pretty closely related, but regarding grammar and vocabulary Finnish is very different from both.

Well, the concept of word inflections and cases is very familiar (Russian has 6 of them). I've started learning Finnish just recently and, so far, everything looks quite reasonable. Yes, it is complex, but I think I am developing a feel for these constructs.

Noone claims it would be impossible to learn Finnish.

But it won't be easy for your daughter.

All I need is a safe place to park my family, while I am away working.

What's wrong with moving to the UK?

Well, I have my own reasons... we have already a guy who is in charge of the European market. For me, moving to the UK would be inserting myself right in the middle of his territory, so I can't do it for "political" reasons. Finland, on the other hand, is much closer to Moscow, but it's still in the EU. So, if I ever assume the responsibility for the European market in my company, I would be able to do it from Finland as well.

So "parking your family" does not include "consider what's best for your family"?

Regarding "close to Moscow", London Heathrow is the busiest airport in Europe and only 3 hours flight time away from Moscow.

[AldenG]

Yes, it is complex, but I think I am developing a feel for these constructs.

Then there might be hope for you.

So many people study conjugations, declensions, and cases as their primary focus, in the misguided belief that when they understand all the details they will understand the language. They'd be so much better off studying constructs -- phrases and sentences clustered around families of meaning (feelings, sensations, greetings, comings-and-goings, etc.) -- and learning a handful at a time of them well. Fluent speakers usually know how to use these things, well, fluently but often cannot correctly discuss cases per se. I think there's a message for us in that.

[Pursuivant]

One of the things that has always bothered me about how lessons are taught here is that the teachers talk, the kids read their books and then they sit exams. Not much critical thinking. With my being involved, we talk alot about the "what ifs?" and "whys" that he had never been encouraged to think about in class.

Sinuhe asked "why" and he was banished and died in exile; for such is written and so it shall be. (Waltari comes required reading in literature)

[jrslv]

Even if you could have, you won't - Finnish parents do not get involved with the schoolwork at this age. You will hear very little from the school unless they consider something "wrong"

One of the things that has always bothered me about how lessons are taught here is that the teachers talk, the kids read their books and then they sit exams. Not much critical thinking. With my being involved, we talk alot about the "what ifs?" and "whys" that he had never been encouraged to think about in class.

I read somewhere that the Finnish education system is ranked #1 in the world, which was one of my strongest selling points to my wife, who is rather cool to this Finland idea. What I read here is very discouraging...

[Upphew]

I read somewhere that the Finnish education system is ranked #1 in the world, which was one of my strongest selling points to my wife, who is rather cool to this Finland idea. What I read here is very discouraging...

Somewhere up there anyways. Finland, South Korea, Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore... somehow I don't see any of those being big with debating things in class. And remember that the education system is for the Finns and we tend to talk Finnish (or Swedish). If you can't talk the talk or walk the walk, then our education system isn't for you.

[jrslv]

And remember that the education system is for the Finns and we tend to talk Finnish (or Swedish). If you can't talk the talk or walk the walk, then our education system isn't for you.

Yes, of course. But to me an education system that (a) doesn't encourage free critical thinking and (b) ignores the quiet (or as somebody put it here "mute") kid in the class is not worthy of praise.

The old soviet school was very good for strong kids that do well in math and physics. It produced good engineers, but very poor leaders! But it was also ignoring and marginalizing kids that struggled - for whatever reason - and also kids with non-mathematical types of intelligence. It's probably true in modern Russia as well.

Canadian school is great at encouraging discussion and leadership and is very inclusive. It doesn't bring kids down and promotes a higher self-esteem. Kids that struggle do not get marginalized. But it is also pathetic when it comes to teaching math: the official policy is to leave no kid behind, which means that kids who are strong, end up below their potential, but I don't care - you can always catch up in high school or university. My older daughter had her share of struggle and I was always amazed by how sensitive the teachers were to her special situation. If she was growing in Russia, I am sure she would end up feeling a complete failure.

That's the kind of environment - supportive and caring - that I am looking for.

[rinso]

But to me an education system that (a) doesn't encourage free critical thinking and (b) ignores the quiet (or as somebody put it here "mute") kid in the class is not worthy of praise.

But somehow it does work for Finns. Remember they feel comfortable sitting and staring at each other for 10 minutes without saying a word.

That's the kind of environment - supportive and caring - that I am looking for.

That is not the Finnish style. The children themselves are an important factor in the environment. They don't tend to be very sociable in the classroom. If someone is "to sociable" he or she can easily isolate him/herself.

[jrslv]

But somehow it does work for Finns. Remember they feel comfortable sitting and staring at each other for 10 minutes without saying a word.

The children themselves are an important factor in the environment. They don't tend to be very sociable in the classroom. If someone is "to sociable" he or she can easily isolate him/herself.

I thought this is a cliche. Are you Finnish yourself? Did you grow up there?