Children left home alone - the Finnish way

[Pursuivant]

Parents keep telling me how happy they are their little kids out "playing" unsupervised. Meanwhile i'm stood outside doing their job for them.

Just watch out you don't get reported to the police for suspicious behaviour

[Adrian42]

I assume you will never allow your son to go swimming - the risk of drowning in a swimming pool is much higher than the risk of being snatched from the street.

Not bothered about statistics, I just don't take chances I don't need to with my kids.

My point is that if you seriously don't want to take chances, never allowing your boy to go swimming would be a must for you.

Drowning is a heavily underestimated risk, and people have funny incorrect thoughts like that a drowning person would scream.
And I actually know a girl who broke her neck by jumping head-first into a pool that was less deep than she thought.

But more realistically, you have to accept the fact that you cannot try to prevent all risks.
Despite all risks, it is extremely rare that a kid does not survive childhood healthy.

[Pursuivant]

Actually, you shouldn't allow the children inside either, as most accidents happen at home.

[irnbru]

I assume you will never allow your son to go swimming - the risk of drowning in a swimming pool is much higher than the risk of being snatched from the street.

Not bothered about statistics, I just don't take chances I don't need to with my kids.

My point is that if you seriously don't want to take chances, never allowing your boy to go swimming would be a must for you.

Drowning is a heavily underestimated risk, and people have funny incorrect thoughts like that a drowning person would scream.
And I actually know a girl who broke her neck by jumping head-first into a pool that was less deep than she thought.

But more realistically, you have to accept the fact that you cannot try to prevent all risks.
Despite all risks, it is extremely rare that a kid does not survive childhood healthy.

Alright statto Pursivant havent your local kids nicknamed you paedo

[CH]

But more realistically, you have to accept the fact that you cannot try to prevent all risks.

Yes, this. And every time I see the discussion of when to leave the child alone home (on boards where there are mostly US parents), I see long lists of risks that are minimal at best while at the same time people seem to be totally oblivious to much bigger every day risks we take with our children and don't even bat an eye about it (like your example of drowning or just simply driving our kids to school).

Anyway, I'm totally when I see (US) parents almost boast that they have never left their 12-14 year old home alone, or just slightly younger ones who aren't even allowed to be outside alone. Accompanied by long lists of how they cannot trust them alone. Um... your kid is going to be on his or her own shortly, I would take that as a very obvious big risk if they haven't had time to actually try out a bit of independence before that.

But well... different cultures. The same way as people from somewhere else are by the Finnish way, we are equally by what to us looks like over protectiveness gone totally insane.

[irnbru]

Yep no sense in dragging out childhood. Lets get them independent and out of our hair ASAP.

[Upphew]

Yep no sense in dragging out childhood. Lets get them independent and out of our hair ASAP.

Dunno where you are from, but I hope not USA.

[pnlbr]

irnbru, your words could be my words. But I also understand that leaving kids alone is the way it is done in this country and since we will stick around for the next few years, it is useless to fight it and keep on calling Finnish parents crazy irresponsible wackos (although in my mind I keep on doing it ) . My kids don't have the maturity to be left alone, period. Not at 6-7 yo. So my idea is to start leading them towards more independence in a faster pace than I would do if we were not living in Finland, but still I doubt that I will be able to leave them alone before the age of 10-12 (and we will most likely be gone by then). I know somebody that makes regular use of the services of a babysitter agency but not on a daily basis, but that could be a solution.

Anyway, we've been discovering Finland in multiple ways and we are enjoying it more by the day (I know, "wait for the winter", etc etc). I am even willing to give it a try to the Finnish language as of Sep. Let's wait and see.

[Whistling Lady]

Irnbru - I completely agree with you! Paedophiles paradise!

Adrian24 - I'd rather be an 'over cautious mother' than a greiving mother! There is nothing 'over cautious' about ensuring the safety and health of a child!

I don't think I will ever get used to the 'Finnish Way'! It is irresponsible and insane! A few months ago, we spotted a 2 year old boy, left alone in a vehicle, strapped into his car seat. We waited around and after 20mins, called the police. We were told that there was nothing they could do, and practically told to forget about it!!!! Eventually, the father returned and he laughed when I tried to point out the dangers of leaving a child unattended!

As for school children being left anywhere, for any length of time! Don't get me started!! Kids being at home alone is a luxury from bygone days - when communities existed; when public transport was limited; when few people had cars; when the internet didn't exist!

We live 'around the corner from the backend of nowhere' - not in a city, town or village. Our area is similiar to many in Finland. However, both the local pre-school and lower grade schools have warned us parents to be on our guard as a strange man has been seen watching the kids in the playground. One tried to co-erce a 7 year old girl into his car. Thankfully the child ran back to the school and told her teacher, but unfortunately he got away.

So Adrian24 - imagine if that little girl was your daughter, only she didn't get away? Or, if she was followed home and attacked in her own home, cos the attacker knew she'd be home alone? What of Madeleine McCann or Jamie Bulger, the toddler who was murdered by two 10 year old boys? Their parents are full of 'if only ...'

You are quite correct in pointing out that most sex attacks are caused by someone known to the victim - so why make it easier for them by regularly leaving a child home alone?!

[Rip]

Eventually, the father returned and he laughed when I tried to point out the dangers of leaving a child unattended!

Attached to a safety seat excluding the very small part of the year here when combination of weather and season could make the inside temperature rise rapidly, about safe as it ever will be.

if she was followed home and attacked in her own home, cos the attacker knew she'd be home alone?

Actually one of the few instructions I remember from my childhood (I don't have a good memory): Don't open the door to anybody when you're alone.

What of Madeleine McCann or Jamie Bulger

One was three, other two years old. I would not recommend leaving unattended a child of those ages. Few would. (except for short time when they a sleeping in a safe place). You are probably capable of understanding that one would need a very long list of danger elements that you could include also wandering pedophiles on it.

You are quite correct in pointing out that most sex attacks are caused by someone known to the victim - so why make it easier for them by regularly leaving a child home alone?!

So you never let the grandparents to babysit either?

[AldenG]

It's a pretty recent development for American parents to be this way. It mostly coincides with the arrival of 2 things: 24-hour news and specifically the tabloid shows that grew up on its periphery, which increased awareness of sensational crime but also grossly distorted perceived risk relative to actual risk; and the phenomenon of "helicopter parenting," in which at least one constantly hovering parent tries to maintain 24/7 involvement in kids' lives far past any kind of developmentally appropriate age or degree. The latter is mostly responsible for the epochal change from American children being among the developed world's most independent to the opposite extreme of becoming among that world's most dependent and latest to individuate and separate from their birth families. The changing economy has exacerbated that problem so that it's now perfectly common for 'kids' to live in their childhood home and childhood room far into their 20's after a 4-year break for college -- a break that fewer and fewer are able to afford.

It's shocking how quickly this change occurred and how little recognition the parent and child generations have of it. The parents who are so fearful for the really young kids where some caution is appropriate probably had parents who were over-involved all the way through the teen years and simply have no memory or concept of any "other normal."

[AldenG]

I've no opinion on whether any particular FF participant is over-anxious or over-involved.

But the phenomenon I describe in America is widely recognized and discussed among sociologists who look at the entire population of interest and among therapists who help the subset of young would-be men and women (or their parents) looking to get out of that cycle. It's hard when they have no experience of a healthy alternative to see as a comparison. They experience symptoms of the problem without at first being able to perceive the actual problem causing the symptoms.

[Pursuivant]

Heck, if you read Mark Twain, his protagonists Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn are 11-12...

[Pursuivant]

There is nothing 'over cautious' about ensuring the safety and health of a child!

Some people might disagree http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... itain.html

[CH]

Irnbru - I completely agree with you! Paedophiles paradise!

I'm sure you have some numbers to back that statement up.

Your children are far, far more likely to end up in the hands of a paedophile by YOU. Somebody you explicitly trust and you have left your children with. Some random person abusing the child is very uncommon. So... do you know what grooming looks like? It's not only grooming of the child, but the parents, too. Do you actually know what to do to mimimize that your child is going to be a victim?

Adrian24 - I'd rather be an 'over cautious mother' than a greiving mother! There is nothing 'over cautious' about ensuring the safety and health of a child!

So you never ever let your child be in a car? A bus is far more safer. Not to mention left at home.

Eventually, the father returned and he laughed when I tried to point out the dangers of leaving a child unattended!

That is not the "Finnish Way" to do, and I'm sure that you will find similar parents doing the same thing in whatever country you hail from originally. Or have you actually seen scores of small kids in cars unattended? That said... exactly what was the grave danger the child was under, assuming he was not able to get out of his seat? Was the car in the sun? Was it freezing outside?

So Adrian24 - imagine if that little girl was your daughter, only she didn't get away? Or, if she was followed home and attacked in her own home, cos the attacker knew she'd be home alone? What of Madeleine McCann or Jamie Bulger, the toddler who was murdered by two 10 year old boys? Their parents are full of 'if only ...'!

These are big news because they almost never happen. If it was something that happend even just every now and then they wouldn't be world wide news. So we are to pad our children up with cotton and lock them up in the basement just in case that one in a billion event would happen to our children? When at the same time we gladly go driving with them, or swimming, or leave them with their grandparents, exposing them to far greater risks? Children are killed daily, world wide, by car accidents, and they make local news but hardly more than that... and we may hug our child more that night, but it won't affect how we behave. My theory is that's it's easier to panic about risks that are very, very small, and take some random steps to assure that that never happens (not that what we do actually has any statistical impact) and by that feel like we are in control, than to accept that we do live under risk, every day.

Reference: http://www.childdeathreview.org/nationa ... tydata.htm (US Child Mortality, 2007)