The importance of Finnish SSN for banks and e-asiointi

[Alex.Sm]

So you say you don't have SSN at all? And you live here how? Do you work? Are you millionaire? Are you refugee? Do you pay taxes if you work? How do you exist in papers? What's your status? Because if you live here but you don't have SSN, that means you don't work, and you don't pay taxes ... that means you are probably rich and just decided to move here! You went to bank with a bag of cash and you told them you need an account because you expect a truck to come full with cash. Bank happy, opened you account. And maybe because you are from EU, then you qualify also for Kela services soo that's how you can log in to Kela ... Interesting! Do you think that everybody whom comes here has a truck full of cash?

Wow, I'm a bit disappointed in you, because you just hinted a little earlier in this thread that you pay attention to my posts in here. Nevertheless you have guessed me 100% correct, I own a 16-room 5-floor mansion in Eira with sea views and a butler. I've never worked (my grandfather founded an international pickle empire and I live off my inheritance). And goodness me, I'd never put my money in a truck, all my cash was brought here from my Lear jet by chauffeur-driven limousine. Obviously I could choose any country in the world and opted for Finland randomly, rather than for the reasons most lowly people like yourself turn up. My status, since it's your business, is that I have about 74 years' worth of trust fund money still, so I think I'll be able to keep myself in caviar and Dom Perignon for a while yet.

Like I said, if the OP was talking to Kela it's likely he has a Finnish identity number. Just like I do. If you had bothered to read the linked article you would know that the ID & nationality issue is not a new thing and happened to someone else, and the banks were told they were WRONG.

Damn ... not bad! So I guess at 2:00 AM you were on your private yacht around Helsinki bay, partying heavily with all your rich friends and laughing about our miserable life, right?

I was a speculating a bit in a sarcastic way - let's say!

The thing is I don't pay attention to your posts but you try hard to share your negativism to everybody. When a foreigner has an issue your replay is something like this: "discrimination case or racism" or "you are disgusted about Finland so much"! So it's not that I pay attention to your posts you just pop-out from crowd with your bad attitude towards Finland and it's people. Well that's just my opinion.

I just don't get why we foreigner have the impression that Finland owes us something? This country doesn't owe us anything. We are guests here and we should follow the rules.

[Rip]

The options are: Retrying via another Nordea branch or the netbank "email", get the Finnish ID Card or try with another bank. Venting here does not help, experiences vary.

[harryc]

I wonder why the word 'discrimination' is used in this thread.

The only question of possible 'differentiation' is citizenship vs. non-citizenship. Someone at Nordea may be misreading, misunderstanding something in the 'rules' but a requirement to be a citizen (and also in many cases to be a resident) is not generally thought to be discrimination.

[Alex.Sm]

I wonder why the word 'discrimination' is used in this thread.

The only question of possible 'differentiation' is citizenship vs. non-citizenship. Someone at Nordea may be misreading, misunderstanding something in the 'rules' but a requirement to be a citizen (and also in many cases to be a resident) is not generally thought to be discrimination.

Maybe because it's easier to just pull the discrimination and race card? I hope EU will crash and countries will get back to "be countries" and decide for themselves! EU like communism has a good basis, good idea but in practice it just doesn't work! Multiculturalism and leftism will destroy EU and every single country. Multiculturalism because when people move to another country they want everything like home. When foreigners move to another country they want to practice they culture and apply their own living style and so on. What about the locals? What about locals culture? In other words foreigners they should have their rights but if the locals want their rights then is discrimination! Many don't realize this will result in problems and is quite sad!

[harryc]

Indeed countries, languages and culture should be respected - but I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water!

[Honest]

["] I hope EU will crash ..... Multiculturalism and leftism will destroy EU and every single country.

[/quote]

If you believe in all this and are still here to dilute Finnish culture/society then you are a hypocrite.

You are a bit over sensitive about being a foreigner here. Yes, people should be contributing to society and not a burden on it but everybody has a right to complain about the problems they face. OP is working and is no leech on kela benefits, so it's no surprise that he/she expects to be treated at par with Finns. He might be wrong but it doesn't take away his/her right to complain and vent frustration.

[Upphew]

He might be wrong but it doesn't take away his/her right to complain and vent frustration.

That I can agree with!

[Flossy1978]

Yes, complain and vent..... But discrimination and racism???? Over some banking issue. Really? I'm reading fro this site more and more outbursts of this racism and discrimination. It comes from foreigners, often over stuff they're not happy with here from Finnish customer service.

It's sad really.....

People need to look up what the words really mean. Go somewhere like the ISIS battle fields and experience real discrimination, racism which is leading to death. Might put the perspective of racism and discrimination into a more realistic light for you foreigners who tend to throw it out there just a bit too quickly and easily.

[Honest]

Can't really find any mention of racism by the OP.

It's a flawed argument to say go and experience discrimination in Iraq or whatever. Those countries and the said people don't claim to be an equal, democratic and free of discrimination society, while Finland claims to be one. So one who comes here expects these things.

Not saying the OP is right in all what he/she said but I feel a bit sick when people try to curb critical talks/thinking and ensuing discussions. There is always place for improvement.

[faronel]

WAS AT THE BANK TODAY. THE ISSUE IS RESOLVED CASE IS CLOSED. INFORMATION IS BELOW.

First,

1. Kela, Vero, Posti like services asks you to log in to their system using Finnish Bank account assuming that your bank already have your Finnish SSN stored in the system.
2. The fact is you opened the bank account using your alien Passport which doesn't contain Finnish SSN
3. You try to log in to Kela using your Finnish bank as Kela suggests, much to your annoyment the Bank says you cannot do so.

The process behind the scene is:
1. Kela online service has all your information in their database but they don't have the verification system.
2. So Kela asks Bank service about verification of your identification as they trust the verification done by secured services like Bank
3. The only response Kela awaits to receive from Bank is your SSN
4. Bank checks the database and find all the information about you but it doesn't have your SSN
5. It issues you error message that you cannot Log in to Kela as your SSN is missing from their database

All you need to do is Hand your Photo ID with Finnish SSN to bank to Finnishification of your Bank account.

In a nut shell: these KELA, VERO etc e-services require you to be, at least, a temporary resident of Finland which is basically defined by getting Finnish SSN at Maistraatti. When you have a Finnish SSN, you can use those e-services. Legally - which is also simply logical - there is no difference between doing business at a local office or doing the same things via e-services. The question is, how do I prove to banks that I have SSN, so I would be granted the access to e-services? The previous bank clerk serving me at the bank office claimed that I needed a Finnish ID with a picture and Finnish SSN on it.

Same thing happened to me...simply went to maistrati office, they gave me some identification form..showed it to bank and it was fixed..can now use it for vero, kela or anywhere..earlier could not do it

Arif Shah is right. When I went to the bank today (I did not read these replies yet, I went there taking with me only my Estonian passport and Discrimination Board's printed decision on paper), I first started talking to another simple bank clerk who was instantly lost. She summoned a senior official that was available. The following conversation was very short, yet very productive. She said: "We use your Estonian passport to confirm your identity but we do not have anything regarding your Finnish SSN. An extract paper from Maistraati with their stamp on it is quite enough to get your SSN and update your profile. There is no rule for us to demand a Finnish ID with picture from you."

I wonder why the word 'discrimination' is used in this thread.
The only question of possible 'differentiation' is citizenship vs. non-citizenship. Someone at Nordea may be misreading, misunderstanding something in the 'rules' but a requirement to be a citizen (and also in many cases to be a resident) is not generally thought to be discrimination.

The word "discrimination" was only used because I read the Discrimination Board's decision and thought that the same principle might apply to my case but I never excluded the possibility of a simple bank clerk's incompetence (the title). Now, I understand that these two cases - mine and the one that was reviewed by the Board - are somewhat different. That guy was refused from basic e-banking opportunities based on his passport. I was refused from e-asiointi which requires a Finnish SSN, just like I would be needing a Finnish SSN if I went to KELA/VERO/etc local office.

OP is working and is no leech on kela benefits, so it's no surprise that he/she expects to be treated at par with Finns. He might be wrong but it doesn't take away his/her right to complain and vent frustration.

Not complaining nor venting, simply was trying to understand the legal perspective here before going to the bank again.
P.S. Still without KELA, had to do the things the hard way, all the way.

[faronel]

Hopefully this thread will help prospective bank customers understand that evidence of a henkilotunnus is essential. To gain full access, banks need to know you are in the system and traceable.

As a side note, I hope it also helps to understand that officials make mistakes sometimes. This thread could have been avoided if the initial bank clerk told me right away about a very simple Maistraati's extract instead of saying that I needed a Finnish ID with my picture and my Finnish SNN on it. Even more, the issue was really about that she could not explain to me why those e-services needed my Finnish ID (i.e. they simply needed my Finnish SSN to be stored in bank systems - I guess someone was eating donuts and discussing their summer trip to Greece during that seminar on "Basics and requirements of e-asiointi").
P.S. Our conversation was held in fluent Finnish and I speak Finnish now as well as I speak English (which, hopefully, was enough to understand her replies).

[Rip]

but I feel a bit sick when people try to curb critical talks/thinking and ensuing discussions.

You can criticize things, just as I can have my opinion that a person that encounters problems has a tendency to blame it on "discrimination" and generally thinks that other persons having the misfortune to deal with him are stupid has an attitude problem.

[faronel]

You can criticize things, just as I can have my opinion that a person that encounters problems has a tendency to blame it on "discrimination" and generally thinks that other persons having the misfortune to deal with him are stupid has an attitude problem.

If the person has a persistent tendency to blame other's stupidity and discriminating approach for his or her problems regardless of the nature of different problems, then I agree with you. However, what would you call it, if the person is actually right about his or her particular situation? My case only serves here as an illustrative example, and of course, as an exception to the rule: if I had conformed to the mistake made by the bank clerk and had went to get myself a Finnish ID (e.g. an ID card for foreigners from the police), it would have been unfair in a sense that I would have been coerced into doing more than I actually was required, in comparison to how some other clients of the same bank got their e-asiointi rights (presuming that quite a number of clients were informed of a simple Maistraatti's extract).

P.S. We can speculate that I am a bastard with an attitude problem who just got lucky this time.

[Rip]

Nordea policies may have changed, lets say during the past five years, possibly more than once. You don't know whose fault it is that the information has not reached properly the lowest level.

To end with a positive note, this thread should be useful for others dealing with Nordea. For now I would still not take it for granted that every other bank has same policy (worth trying, of course)

(being smaller than passport and having that ID code, the ID card has it uses though)

[Alex.Sm]

["] I hope EU will crash ..... Multiculturalism and leftism will destroy EU and every single country.

If you believe in all this and are still here to dilute Finnish culture/society then you are a hypocrite.

You are a bit over sensitive about being a foreigner here. Yes, people should be contributing to society and not a burden on it but everybody has a right to complain about the problems they face. OP is working and is no leech on kela benefits, so it's no surprise that he/she expects to be treated at par with Finns. He might be wrong but it doesn't take away his/her right to complain and vent frustration.[/quote]

I've never had any complain in this country and raised my voice against the system because to be honest I cannot compare my former home country with Finland. Even if the bank didn't gave me a credit card although I was working, I thought "Damn! This is a good system! They don't give credit cards and loans just like that to every Unknownminen that asks for one! Great!" In my former home country they will have give me a credit card no questions asked (if I work and so on), which is not good and safe and also loans without any guarantees! There have been many cases and many issues. So the so called rules and policies which other find a discrimination act for me are just good safe rules.

I know it sound hypocrite to say that "damn multiculturalism, foreigners and so on destroy EU and every single country" ... but sorry that's the reality! Multiculturalism doesn't work so good! I didn't generalized but if we put in balance good foreigners and bad foreigners, the difference is big! We do much bad then good! There is an old saying: "Lupus pilum mutare, non mores!" And the sad part is that nobody give's a damn! Go and move to Slovakia, Poland, Czech Republic, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovenia which are EU countries ... go there and demand the same rights as them and start screaming laud discrimination and accuse the locals of such acts and you will get a clear message which is: "@#$% Off if you don't like it here! We didn't came and to your country and bring you here, you came here by your own will! Behave!". It's just the civilized finns and other western countries that let the head down when a foreigner screams out loud discrimination for non-sens matters! I think every nation should stand for itself in their own country and make it clear to everybody that comes that if they don't follow the rules they are free to go back to their home country!

Another thing which you get wrong is that working, paying taxes and so on doesn't mean you are finn. Until finns will accept you as one of them and you get the citizenship you are still a foreigner and you don't have the same rights as a finnish citizen. Period!

I didn't accused OP of anything! He is working and paying taxes that's perfect that is what this country needs, people to work and contribute to society! What I didn't like was the discrimination word and the fact that some others around in here they do support the "discrimination idea" when was just a matter of getting a damn paper with the SSN from Maistraatti and show it to bank!