UAS versus University

[Peter 123]

O.K., for weeks on end I am looking at the various options of study in Europe (in English language).

Finland definitely has the best offers when it comes to polytechnics.
I wonder what do the people do once they obtained the Bachelor degree besides of going for bridge course and Master.
Bachelor in let`s say International Business (I`ll finalize school with Internat. Baccalaureate next May).

Where does a UAS-Bachelor bring me ?
Can one get a decent job within the EU when there are tons of research university Bachelors waiting for the same job...., or is the job market for UAS and university degree holders clearly defined and separated ?

Everybody will tell me that as an IB-holder I have to go for an university degree.
But the English programmes are quite limited in numbers throughout Europe, while the UAS in Finland are many and perhaps/probably of good quality.

Thank you,

Peter

[Pursuivant]

UAS would be best for some real profession, like nursing, engineering, programming... "International business" sorry but they already have automated touch-screen robots in McDonalds taking your future job.

[Beep_Boop]

You're the only one capable of answering that question.

If you'd like to keep your options open in case you swing to research, then a university degree is better for you. If you'd like to demonstrate some indications of work-market readability, then a polytechnic degree is more suitable.
In the end, both degrees give you a path to Masters if you wish to peruse that. At the same time, both of them give you a way to enter the work market.

Personally, however, if I were an employer, I'd feel a bit more comfortable hiring a UAS/AMK grad (from a good one, not something like VAMK or Centria*, though) for work fields fields like IT.

* Just personal low opinion of those two universities. Don't quote me on it.

[Upphew]

Personally, however, if I were an employer, I'd feel a bit more comfortable hiring a UAS/AMK grad (from a good one, not something like VAMK or Centria*, though) for work fields fields like IT.

I have pretty much the same opinion. Finnish universities are geared for masters, bachelors are dropouts. UAS are geared for bachelors and UAS Masters are... weird.

[betelgeuse]

Personally, however, if I were an employer, I'd feel a bit more comfortable hiring a UAS/AMK grad (from a good one, not something like VAMK or Centria*, though) for work fields fields like IT.

I have pretty much the same opinion. Finnish universities are geared for masters, bachelors are dropouts. UAS are geared for bachelors and UAS Masters are... weird.

When I was applying for tertiary studies the common opinion in my upper secondary school was that only people who can't get into university apply for AMK (unless the subject is only available in AMK). The school was science oriented so most people ended up applying for Helsinki University of Technology, which is nowadays part of Aalto. However, since you need to pay the average DI more than the AMK grad it makes sense to hire AMK people for non specialized IT positions.

[Beep_Boop]

However, since you need to pay the average DI more than the AMK grad it makes sense to hire AMK people for non specialized IT positions.

and what would those be?

[Rosamunda]

One other thing to bear in mind with the UAS is that internships/work placements are an integral part of the courses and some students are able to find work after graduation by returning to the organisations where they worked.

Recently I have had discussions with foreign students who chose subjects like Sales and Customer Service, Hospitality Management etc rather than International Business because the job prospects are better. But things can change quickly. If I were going to study business (all over again) I would aim for Aalto, Hanken etc. or go abroad.

I agree with the others. UAS are great for engineering, tourism, IT etc (I have one son doing Mech Eng in HAMK and another doing Sales & Customer Service in Tampere).

[betelgeuse]

However, since you need to pay the average DI more than the AMK grad it makes sense to hire AMK people for non specialized IT positions.

and what would those be?

When you are looking for Joe the Coder instead of the cousin of Linus Torvalds. The gurus have more useful credentials to look at than a degree any way.

[Pursuivant]

You think "what job can be outsourced" and work along those lines.

[Beep_Boop]

When you are looking for Joe the Coder instead of the cousin of Linus Torvalds. The gurus have more useful credentials to look at than a degree any way.

I'm pretty sure there are many levels between "Joe the Coder" and "Cousin of Linus Torvalds". The whole thing that a DI is given more important tasks than an AMK is a load of crap. Although I have neither of those degrees, I still see how the grads are treated in every workplace at which I worked.

Unless the position is research-focused, there's really no advantage for a DI over an AMK.. no matter how complicated the task is. In the end, you only practically apply and use a fraction of what you learn in school. All things equal (including a Bachelor's of a relevant field, AMK or DI), what sets you apart is what you've done and your actual skills.

[Pursuivant]

Depends if you are in an actual "edison lab" inventing stuff... However at least in Finland those places are now few andd far between. And they need to have the AMK guys to keep the actual machinery running, project managers, sales engineers - you know the filter between the geekoods and buying customers. Just like you need an AMK "build engineer" with alm the outsorced yes-yes coders, rabid project managers, hippie UX designers and troglodyte DBA's (did I just describe myself -oopsydaisy ) you see the result when they "save" and just publish.

"for a successful project, lets first kill all scrum masters"
Hank W

[betelgeuse]

Unless the position is research-focused, there's really no advantage for a DI over an AMK.. no matter how complicated the task is. In the end, you only practically apply and use a fraction of what you learn in school. All things equal (including a Bachelor's of a relevant field, AMK or DI), what sets you apart is what you've done and your actual skills.

You seem to have missed my point. I did not comment at the level of education or advantage of the studies. The point of view of many natives is that AMKs are second class institutions. This however, does not apply to foreigners since English programs are not available at the bachelors level in universities. When hiring a native a university graduate is more likely to have done better in secondary studies which has implications for the skills you reference.

[Beep_Boop]

You seem to have missed my point. I did not comment at the level of education or advantage of the studies. The point of view of many natives is that AMKs are second class institutions. This however, does not apply to foreigners since English programs are not available at the bachelors level in universities. When hiring a native a university graduate is more likely to have done better in secondary studies which has implications for the skills you reference.

I missed your point because you don't have one. Natives or not, in every work place I've ever worked at in Finland, a DI had no advantage over an AMK grad. Every place I worked at had at least 90% natives, and I can say with confidence that the vast majority of them are AMK holders (some of them have Masters degrees, though).

I don't know, you might be an HR expert with experience in multiple companies. In that case, I could be severely wrong. However, my experience, so far, hasn't shown me that the market prefers DI grads over AMK grads when it comes to skilled work.

[betelgeuse]

I don't know, you might be an HR expert with experience in multiple companies. In that case, I could be severely wrong. However, my experience, so far, hasn't shown me that the market prefers DI grads over AMK grads when it comes to skilled work.

I do have some HR background as a hired consultant for recruiting people (however it was specialized to one entity). I think we can agree that our subjective experiences differ.

[inhercognito]

Would credits obtained from an UAS program still be recognized by a traditional theory based university?