Engineer girlfriend moving to Finland - No luck with jobs!

[tanilas]

Hi all,

I decided to share my story here to see what kind of feedback I get.

I am half-Greek half-Finnish and have been living in Finland over the last 4 years. I have a girlfriend in Greece and she has tried a lot to find work here but with no luck. We both are graduated engineers, she is a mechanical engineer, with no working experience though, since she just graduated.

Two years ago we actually even found her a place to do her thesis in Aalto University through Erasmus Placements, and during that time everything was great.

Since then, she has been applying for jobs in many places, even greatly lowering her standards but no luck at all. I could easily say that she has applied to more than 40 jobs but not even a single call for an interview.

I have work and when she comes here she only falls into depression because in Greece she is a so active person, but here she has no activites and not many good friends yet.

Her Finnish are still bad but she plans to study and give for the YKI exams, but next one for beginners is in November.

We have been lately considering to marry in order. I don't want to exploit the Finnish system, I just want to find something rewarding for a person whom I consider intelligent and willing to work hard.

What would your suggestions would be? Does marriage solve the citizenship problem? And would actually citizenship help with finding a job?

[sky2]

Does marriage sove the citizenship problem? And would actually citizenship help with finding a job?

Yes, it should solve the citizenship problem sooner or later but I don't see how its going to help with finding a job.

[tanilas]

1. Thanks for reading, I realized it's quite a long post.
2. I've heard (I don't if it's a rumour) that the state ensures that Finnish citizenships are favored against foreigners when the qualifications are equal.
3. Is there any other suggestion then?
4. Maybe the post looks like it should actually be in the "Tea & Sympathy" section...

[interleukin]

As the spouse of a Finnish citizen who spent years in Helsinki without really getting a proper job in his field, I can tell you that citizenship changes nothing. You are either qualified (and have a valid residence permit/registration) or you are not. The Finnish person will get picked first, but not due to citizenship but due to being a Finn and knowing the language and system.

Sorry, but if she can not find a job as an EU citizen, she will not as a Finnish citizen.

Being a citizen can actually be worse in some ways, you get ignored if you want to get the state-sponsored Finnish language classes (they are given to "real" foreigners even if you don´t know any Finnish) and you are assumed to be able to take more care of yourself.

We ended up moving from Finland to another EU country...

[caster]

To get the answers you want to hear - you need to consult a medium with a magic ball

[tanilas]

Thanks a lot for the info. Not encouraging at all but I highly appreciate it.

The Finnish person will get picked first, but not due to citizenship but due to being a Finn and knowing the language and system.

I also had in mind that it might be like that, but I wondered whether it's some sort of more official rule.

We ended up moving from Finland to another EU country...

Indeed we have been considering the same but I am in the middle of some studies and a PhD degree and I am "trapped" here for the next 2 years. Not to mention that they ask me to go to the army here soon...

[Upphew]

The Finnish person will get picked first, but not due to citizenship but due to being a Finn and knowing the language and system.

I also had in mind that it might be like that, but I wondered whether it's some sort of more official rule.

Official rule is more like positive discrimination. But that is for public jobs. Private companies can do as they like to a point.

[rinso]

Does marriage solve the citizenship problem? And would actually citizenship help with finding a job?

No and no.
She can get Finnish citizenship if she is here long enough and speaks good enough Finnish. You can easily find the requirements on line.
Jobs without Finnish language requirements are rare. And if there is one in her field there will be a huge competition from foreigners and locals alike.

Your story is more or less the average experience foreigners here have. But not many want to share them here. Good that you did. It could help others to see things more realistically.

[tanilas]

I know for sure that my story is not special.

Of course it's a pity that a person with University-level engineering degree and lots of ambition can not get a job here but I bet the job market is not as romantic nor emotional as I might be.

But even with pure capitalistic thinking, why wouldn't you give a chance to a freshly graduated engineer to show their talent (if any) for 6 months with the minimum salary when the average egineer's salary in Finland 5500€? Except if your physically located in some "dead-cheap labour" paradise.

Now I'm getting both emotional and political and that was not my intention! :p

[Beep_Boop]

why wouldn't you give a chance to a freshly graduated engineer to show their talent (if any) for 6 months with the minimum salary

Because a new employee doesn't only cost you his salary. When you hire a new employee, you pay the salary, other fees for the government, their equipment, tens of hours of other people's time for the paperwork and for training him. In addition to insurance, healthcare, a few other things. So you need to be quite selective about whom you hire.

when the average egineer's salary in Finland 5500€

Wait wait wait. You talked about your GF lowering her standards. Is that where he standards were? Because I can assure you that your information is very inaccurate. Hehehehe... 5500

[tanilas]

why wouldn't you give a chance to a freshly graduated engineer to show their talent (if any) for 6 months with the minimum salary

Because a new employee doesn't only cost you his salary. When you hire a new employee, you pay the salary, other fees for the government, their equipment, tens of hours of other people's time for the paperwork and for training him. In addition to insurance, healthcare, a few other things. So you need to be quite selective about whom you hire.

Well, don't judge me, I got emotional I told you.. :p
I agree that a new employee increases workload on some other employees (e.g. training, paperwork as you mentioned) but the expenses in terms of fees, insurance etc. are usually proportional to the wage and some are just additive (i.e. no matter if you get 5000 or 1500, the equipment costs the same). But still hiring somebody is more expensive that not hiring anyone but that's quite opposite what growing business and enterpreneurship usually are about. (I shouldn't actually get into that, I'm no expert on this field so better to shut up :p )

when the average egineer's salary in Finland 5500€

Wait wait wait. You talked about your GF lowering her standards. Is that where he standards were? Because I can assure you that your information is very inaccurate. Hehehehe... 5500

Noooooooooo, not at all. To be specific, this number was mentioned by my Finnish teacher in Aalto University. More specifically she said that the average wage is 3500 in Finland and the average engineer's wage is 5500. She might even meant gross income which is quite a difference. But even if it holds, for sure the distribution is not symmetrical, I mean some guy might get 15000 but there's none getting -10000...

[tanilas]

[
Wait wait wait. You talked about your GF lowering her standards. Is that where he standards were?

I forgot to answer since you asked that her standards are more or less around 1500 as her priority right now is to gain some working experience rather than to live a big life or put money aside.

[Rosamunda]

There is an ACUTE shortage of engineers in the UK... Maybe your girlfriend should think of going there first to get some experience and then she might have better luck getting into a Finnish company.

[HerraMopsi]

Why would they want her when the Finnish applicant has an extra language? Yes it's racist, but there's no point complaining about the racism of bossess.

How on earth is that racist?

[tanilas]

There is an ACUTE shortage of engineers in the UK... Maybe your girlfriend should think of going there first to get some experience and then she might have better luck getting into a Finnish company.

@Rosamunda: Thanks a lot for the advice, I was not aware of that but it doesn't solve the problem in the short-run and we kind of have already some long-term plans.

I know it's depressing, but the number is not enough AND she's applying for the wrong jobs. Many positions get more than a hundred applicants and you have to remember that a Greek person with a weird name who is not living in Finland and doesn't speak Finnish and has zero experience...

1. It is of course sad and terrible to write canned motivation letters. Apart from the fact that you can't seem motivated for that many jobs and describe "how perfectly they fit your qualifications" the no reply (=rejection) drains all your energy. And even if you have some qualification you end up feeling more useless than a trash bin.
2. I consider myself very lucky that I found a very relevant job position very fast and at first I thought that this was the general case..
3. Indeed her surname is a pretty long and weird Greek name :p

As about the fact that they're choosing mainly Finnish people and Finnish speakers I wouldn't consider it racism at all. It is indeed sad but companies set the rules and I only choose if I want to "play".

I appreciate a lot this discussion and your comments-advice although it hasn't been the most optimistic one.