child wants to eat before payment?

[biz_it]

Hi,

Sometimes, If I buy banana, apples, chocolates etc inside a supermarket, my two years old does not want to wait for me to make the payment and creates a havoc and noise. When he creates a scene, I weigh the apples, put the price tag on the bag and then give one of the apples to him or if it is a pack of icecreams/chocolates, give him one from the pack. Eventually I am paying for the whole things including what he ate (if it is an apple, it is already weighed or if an icecream/chocolate, it is already counted in the pack) and the cashier can charge according to the tags

However, I still want to confirm If I can do that. I try my best to make him wait till I make the payment but at times, the line is so big and it becomes to hard to contain him anymore. He cries, punches and creates scenes usually (Now he is getting better with times so does not happen that often anymore). Sometimes, he just wants it on the spot without waiting for the payment. Now we usually try to hide it from him until we make the payment. However, I would still like to know what the law says about it

AZ

[ajdias]

It doesn't really matter what the law says: you are doing your child a disservice by not telling no and not teaching firmly that no matter how big the tantroom is, he'll have to accept certain things. It's way easier to accept now when he is small, and only cryes a few times (trust me, if you were to make sure his behavior were to have no consequences he'd give it up) when they are young than when they grow up, although I reckon some of these people walk around without getting themselves into serious trouble.

Not that I came here to lecture you on child rearing, I'd guess you won't get in trouble for that, not with the law. However, some employee may raise an eye or say something and this is likely to be, technically, illegal.

[rinso]

+1

[Kai]

+2

But, the only place I have ever seen this behaviour before was here in Finland, as a British child it felt wrong. Back in the day when on summer holidays here, if I went to the shops with my (Finnish) aunt we would eat ice creams while shopping, the wrappers were shown at the till and there was never a problem.

[biz_it]

It doesn't really matter what the law says: you are doing your child a disservice by not telling no and not teaching firmly that no matter how big the tantroom is, he'll have to accept certain things. It's way easier to accept now when he is small, and only cryes a few times (trust me, if you were to make sure his behavior were to have no consequences he'd give it up) when they are young than when they grow up, although I reckon some of these people walk around without getting themselves into serious trouble.

Not that I came here to lecture you on child rearing, I'd guess you won't get in trouble for that, not with the law. However, some employee may raise an eye or say something and this is likely to be, technically, illegal.

You want me to teach a two year old kid who can't yet speak or understand the words. The only thing he understand is that food is to be eaten. I am gradually teaching him and he is getting better. That is why I asked that if it is considered unacceptable or even if it raises an eyebrow, I will not do it. Atleast in many other countries that I have been to, it is not even considered something bad. As mentioned above, you either show a tag or wrapper to pay for the stuff.

I wonder if I asked how should I look after my child.

AZ

[Beep_Boop]

I wonder if I asked how should I look after my child.

You're absolutely correct. You didn't ask for advise on caring/raising your kid. However, ajdias has every right to say whatever he wants to say (within reason), whether you like it or not.

In fact, I'm gonna weigh in on that too.
First, in most stores, that wouldn't be a problem. You just show the barcode and pay.
Second,

You want me to teach a two year old kid who can't yet speak or understand the words.

At that age, kids can understand simple words that express simple thoughts. For example, "No" with a head shake, or "Yes" with a nod. Also that that age, kids learn a lot from their parents' behaviour, and especially building the capacity for better emotional intelligence (including not crying and making a scene if mommy said no candy).

It's completely your business to raise your child however you see fit. It's also my business to think about it whatever I want and express my thoughts in a reasonable manner, and I think you're not handling the situation very well.

[biz_it]

guys, whatever you want to say or think is absolutely right. However, you have no right of judging a kid or a parent. All I wanted to ask was if it was considered bad or stealing here in Finland (It is not a global rule though). If it is not acceptable, I will stop doing it and will somehow try to manage it. I have alway paid fully and only did after I have fully weighed. Infact in few shops, the cashier knew the pack is already opened for the kid and only passed on a smile. All I wanted to know was the law or rules about it

As for kids, each kid has his or her own capacity or capabilities. Some kids can't even walk at 2.5 years and start walking after that. I did not want to bring my kids capacity of understanding here. Thanks for the information that it is not acceptable and I will keep that in mind. Period

[ajdias]

You want me to teach a two year old kid who can't yet speak or understand the words. The only thing he understand is that food is to be eaten.

Actions.
That's what kids (and adults) understand. kids understand enough to know that if he starts crying for a treat he will get it; that's negative reinforcement.
We humans tend to act as if words are all that matter but behavior, particularly in f2f, is far more important. Deep down we are still primates.

If you don't believe me, and aren't again seeing this advice as judgemental, which the above never was, go pick any decent parenting good.

[biz_it]

You want me to teach a two year old kid who can't yet speak or understand the words. The only thing he understand is that food is to be eaten. I wonder if I asked how should I look after my child.

Well you didn't ask, but you did defend bad behaviour. Two is old enough to learn "no", which is why people tried to help. And yes - if your kid is eating before you pay, then it is technically stealing. But will the store make a problem with it? I don't know. They might. They might not. There was a lady in the forum here who ate some nuts before the checkout and was arrested and charged, so they do watch people who are shopping and they might get nasty So maybe just bring a snack from home in a special lunch box so that he learns the lunch box is always ok to eat?

Thank you. That is all I wanted to know. If it is considered stealing, then I will be careful. I did not want to leave it up to them but wanted to do what the law says. I am not defending whether I am doing something good or bad...infact I was asking whether it is legally correct or not

Was I defending myself as a parent, Yes I was. You don't know the situation of a kid is and every kid is not the same

Manners or behaviour is subjective and everyone has his or her own opinions and is debatable. However, law is standard so i wanted to know the law

Thanks
AZ

[biz_it]

Few more comments

1) Am I defending my actions: No, If I was, I would not be asking here. I wanted to be sure that I don't fall under a stealing category and that is why I asked here. Wanted to know if It is considered stealing, I will absolutely stop doing it. I was a bit doubtful so wanted to be very sure

I have only done it 2/3 times and the rest of times, I have somehow managed to contain him till the payment. Why I did during those 2/3 times, that is something I know and I cannot explain it here. In those 2/3 times, the cashier knew that the pack had already been opened or food taken out but they did not say even a single word. However, I was still curious and wanted to be absolutely sure that I am not doing something wrong. If I am wrong, I will stop doing it so there is no way I was defending my actions as a customer. However, I was defending my actions as a parent and stop judging me if you don't know the situation

2) Some of you started questioning or judging my parenting here which is totally wrong. I had already explained that I am doing my best to contain him and it is getting better. However, there are situations that are unavoidable. Stop living in ideal world and realize that there are exceptions.

[GermanInHelsinki]

The nuts girl was of course only arrested after leaving the shop without paying.

No matter what the law says, as long as you pay when for everything there is of course no problem in practice when eating before paying (except of course if what you are eating is a can of rotten Swedish fish).

It is of course a good idea to teach children early that No means No - they understand before they speak.

[biz_it]

The nuts girl was of course only arrested after leaving the shop without paying.

Yes she was - however it's proof they had her under surveillance before she got to the checkout. I can't imagine 99% of shopkeepers assuming a toddler is a thief, but I also don't think I'd like to deal with that 1%.

I totally agree with you on that though. I would not take a chance even if there is a 0.01% chance of being labeled as a thief and that is exactly why I asked on this forum. However, I would again say that how one raises a child is totally subjective.

I have my own methods of raising my child and I try my best to convince him but if he becomes too stubborn, I don't comepete with him and at times, I give up just to teach him that giving up is a bad thing. That is ofcourse staying within laws (and that is exactly why I asked here to make sure I am not going against the laws)

Some people might have opinion never to give up in front of a child and I say give up or compormise at times just to teach him to comporimse. Infact I am observing pretty good progress in him that now he also listens to me when I listen to him or give up at times

Again, I would not do stealing for him if he shouts or cries or whatever. However, staying within laws, I do believe that listning to child or givin up to him at times does not harm

However, If you have your own methods or I have my own, we cannot judge each others parenting methods. That is all I wanted to say. I have seen on this forum that people become judgemental too quickly. That is what I am objecting to. I am not objecting to whatever opinions or suggestions you have and I am thankful for that. I only object when you start questioning my parenting.

[Rip]

With younger kids I have sometimes given something small to eat (or a 2 dl milk cartoon), around age three then switching to "Ok, but you can eat it only after cashier". What others do with their kids is (mostly) their business, but keeping a very young child hungry when you do your, not necessarily that short, tour in a supermarket, seem like way of making the life unnecessarily miserable for everybody involved.

No-one from staff has ever said anything (except perhaps "do I put to trash?" after scanning a packet without a content). Singles rarely load a shopping cart in supermarket, shop managers don't have an initiative to start a conflict with their key customers and the whiny two year old isn't in anybody's interest - and if somebody thinks i lost important opportunity to teach a one or two year old to be hungry and content at the same time, well, they have their opinion and I have mine.

[biz_it]

With younger kids I have sometimes given something small to eat (or a 2 dl milk cartoon), around age three then switching to "Ok, but you can eat it only after cashier". What others do with their kids is (mostly) their business, but keeping a very young child hungry when you do your, not necessarily that short, tour in a supermarket, seem like way of making the life unnecessarily miserable for everybody involved.

No-one from staff has ever said anything (except perhaps "do I put to trash?" after scanning a packet without a content). Singles rarely load a shopping cart in supermarket, shop managers don't have an initiative to start a conflict with their key customers and the whiny two year old isn't in anybody's interest - and if somebody thinks i lost important opportunity to tech a one or two year old to be hungry and content at the same time, well, they have their opinion and I have mine.

+10

[riku2]

If I ever needed convincing that having kids is a bad idea, then this is the thread to read!