hey people

[levyraccoon]

Thanks for stopping by.

just registered and wanted to stop and say hi.

My wife and I have this nutty idea of moving to Finland from Canada. We both have Canadian and EU passports, however, we'd like to move there.

Is this an insane idea?

I am self-employed, pretty ok in my field, which is hardwood flooring, 17 years of experience. My wife is a RECE with 18 yrs experience.
By the looks of property prices, we could likely to afford a house there. We have one cat, that would come.

I guess this post sounds sketchy, but the whole idea sprang from an overnight stopover in Helsinki.

Thanks

[Rosamunda]

Why not. But don't sell up everything in Canada. Keep your options open. If you have enough money to support yourselves without work for several months then just do it. If you end up hating it here, then you just go home and pick up where you left off and consider the whole thing as a holiday. But don't come over expecting to learn the language, make friends and find work because then you risk being disappointed.

It is not impossible you could find work sub-contracting in hardwood flooring, even with little or no Finnish. But being your own boss here might prove challenging with no language skills.

[Rip]

THe EU passport gives them the freedom to try it, but I find it hard to believe it would work without knowing the language (for the OP himself so that he would not be competing with Estonians/Poles/whatever for job with rather lot lower income that he is used to).

[Pursuivant]

Moving to Finland is like moving to the boonies of Quebec sans parlais frances

RECE is something to do with childhood education. OK, its like in Canada, you have some "funny foreign education" and "no local work experience" so you are unqualified and your degree is crap. Reciprocality agreement

Hardwood flooring - better off than a carpet layer

[levyraccoon]

thank you for the input.

It is our goal to learn the language because, we would like to learn Finnish, we are not ignorant bastards, who expect the world to speak englese and we more or less want to move there for the Finnish experience.

RECE is the Early Childhood Education- business. I bet anyone 100 bucks that any child in any country will be smiling with my wife in one minute. Maybe less. Understand that this will not make any Finn leave their kindergarten and sign up with the wifey, just saying that if there is such person, she is a true talent.

As some of you have pointed it out, as a self-employed would be more likely be disadvantaged due to the lack of language and networks.
However, I am on top of my games, with some reputable client/professional references and I have no problem driving the machines all day for an employer.

More or less my three major questions would be;

Cost of properties somewhere near the sea, or lake, not North, We are near Toronto and we'd be happy to live the jungle behind.
Average trade person salary / moth/wk
Average cost of living for a family of 2 plus vet bills?

Thank you

[levyraccoon]

As for the money part,
depending on living expenses (normal guys with decent food and least one SAAB ) we should be good for awhile.

As for keeping the house in the Canada, if anyone knows anything about our housing market, I would not hesitate a blink to sell it. It will only get cheaper to buy if we'd return

[Rosamunda]

Well there is a huge shortage of people to work in the municipal päiväkoti but the pay is on a par with cleaning jobs and kitchen work, ie close to what would be consider the minimum wage and they require Finnish language skills. There are some English-speaking päiväkoti - you can use http://www.mol.fi/tyopaikat/tyopaikkatiedotus/haku/ to look for jobs.
eg:
http://www.mol.fi/tyopaikat/tyopaikkati ... 798_fi.htm
http://www.mol.fi/tyopaikat/tyopaikkati ... 044_fi.htm

Just out of interest, how many languages do you speak and how long do you think it will take you to achieve working fluency in Finnish?

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

Cost of properties somewhere near the sea, or lake, not North, We are near Toronto and we'd be happy to live the jungle behind.
Average trade person salary / moth/wk
Average cost of living for a family of 2 plus vet bills?

Those things vary greatly, rarely the mathematical averages apply as such to any individual case. Average salary in the private sector (as a whole) is around 3500 euros/month, median being around 3100, before taxes. You can estimate your income tax in http://prosentti.vero.fi/VPL2015/Sivut/ ... ieli=en-US . If having your own business, obviously it's a different story. Housing is easily the biggest expense, and there's great variation in house prices depending on the location, whether in a bigger city or close enough to commute to one, or in a more rural area You can check house prices on http://www.etuovi.com . Upkeep (annual tax, insurance, inspection, maintenance, tires) of a car is around 1000 euros annually, without considering fuel or devaluation. Excluding housing and a car or two, I'd say 1000 euros (net) a month is the minimum for two people to live on, scraping by and not much else.

[betelgeuse]

Those things vary greatly, rarely the mathematical averages apply as such to any individual case. Average salary in the private sector (as a whole) is around 3500 euros/month, median being around 3100, before taxes. You can estimate your income tax in http://prosentti.vero.fi/VPL2015/Sivut/ ... ieli=en-US .

When comparing to North American salaries expressed on yearly level remember that the above numbers do not include the mandatory pension payments or holiday extras paid in most fields (roughly half a month salary).

[esox]

quite a positive response you have received here, which is good as sometimes the people are very negative and troll others. Well I have been told the climate and look of finland is very much like canada so you would feel at home. Finding work is not very easy but there are jobs in the city working in kitchens through agencies and you don't have to speak any finnish. you just need salmonella and food safety certificate very easy and all weighs in at under 100euros. The benefit of working here is they pay a 'living wage' which means whatever job you do you will not have usually have to rely on government top-ups and income support. I am not making out the wages are exceptional but in comparison to the uk where the minimum wage for a 21 year old or over is around 6 euros and housing is extortionate as well as other stupid charges such as council tax and crazy parking permit prices. oh and not to mention running a car, insurance for me at 25, male, no criminal record and clean licence is pretty much no change from a grand for the lowest coverage. so 1300 ish euros with no named drivers. Aaaaanyway enough bashing the uk. Well my point is money seems to go further, working hours are shorter, the media is not telling you there is a pedophile around every corner. life is not bad. I would look down the route of private finnish lessons through the councils when you arrive, the TE office is a waste of time and varies from area to area, you might get lucky though. waiting time for finnish course is 5-6 months in helsinki. Kela takes a month at least to get back to you. you are best off attempting to go alone as much as possible it will work better than in a queue with 1000's of non eu asylum seekers and freeloaders who only wish to claim benefit, which brings me on to the next subject.....

Europe is about to go down the !"#¤%,you must seriously consider this as your main concern. if it wasn't already on the brink of collapse with countries banks folding every year and going bankrupt with billion pound bailouts going left right and centre now you have most of the middle east arriving with no passports so they cant be sent home claiming asylum. Mostly headed for germany the UK and Sweden. With generous benefits and an open arm policy, aside from the politics and weather or not this is right or wrong there is no way the european healthcare systems and schooling systems can continue to function with this influx. I know for a fact the NHS (national free healthcare) in the uk has been struggling already and nearly liquidated into semi private in the past. Unfortunately Finland is not far behind, there is a strong left wing following here and anything moderately right wing happening is met with furious protests for freedom and humanity. there have been a few large protests this year. The area I live in is a bit of a ghetto and already the non eu nationals are clearly not integrating. why would I worry about this? you may ask.is he racist? no, its because this happened in the uk years ago. politicians were warned about 'ghettos' and 'non integrated communities' from advisors and representatives, they were shot down for being 'racist' now we have sharia law protests /campaigns and 'muslim patrols' in central london around brick lane where people are harassed for buying alcohol and couples abused for holding hands. I am not making this up just search it on youtube. My point is Finland is maybe 20 years away from this I Have no faith in my generations vote and opinions in this politically correct society (meaning whole of europe) they clearly dont care about the past sacrifices made (by many, many canadians i may add) in wars for a better future and seem to have no wish to preserve this.

In conclusion, I would come. You can allways go back. Finland is awesome, the fishing is incredible a well. good luck

[Rip]

Finding work is not very easy but there are jobs in the city working in kitchens through agencies and you don't have to speak any finnish. you just need salmonella and food safety certificate very easy and all weighs in at under 100euros. The benefit of working here is they pay a 'living wage' which means whatever job you do you will not have usually have to rely on government top-ups and income support.

Maybe, but I still presume they doing a significantly better than that now. Canada may be relatively "close" to Finland, at least closer than almost any other country, but that also makes one wonder what do they actually expect to gain, to compensate the generally poorer economy and big problem of not knowing the local language?

[esox]

Dunno, nothing happens just thinking about it. Just say fukit it and throw caution to the wind it will work out somehow life is too short to worry. I have heard awesome things about canada though, I have cousins there and life seems pretty good. and apparently it is the most sexually active country in a recent survey i read online so you cant go wrong.

[levyraccoon]

Thanks folks for the replies.
Esox, appreciate the outsider's inside view. Have spent part of my younger years down in Bromley By Bow, the Eastend. Did like it there alot.
Canadian sex activity statistics are definitely misleading

What do we expect from Finland? A more human-scale life, where fridges are smaller than a cube van, no need for intercom in your home, food that made of natural ingredients and an economy not based on consumption alone.
Throw in some good fishing and hunting,couple of Saab and a SAUNA and we are golden.

Technically, whatever described about the migrants in Oyrop, happening in Canada as we speak. To the letter. Your girlfriend couldnt wear shorts around certain area of Toronto, without being ridiculed the least.
The reason we choose Finnland over other Scandinavian countries is the our assumption that is free(er) from this epidemic. yet.

As we know. 90+% of Canada's population lives within a 100km distance from the US border. Which means, we are more densely populated here, than you guys are in Finland. Am i wrong? Oh, and your population is 1/6th of ours.

Generally speaking, we are more than content with a menial jobs, paying ok salary.
We will begin taking Finnish lessons once we are back from vacation. In a month. Start the process.
Likely, we'd purchase a normal size house next spring for cash.

What I am still hazy about is;

minimum salry to expect/ month
cost of a <150 m/2 house outside/ close to a larger city
average living expense for 2(and a cat) with a Saab 1000 EU?
start the long weekend folks!

[Kössi K]

You can check the house prices in each area/town and some rental ones too, for example, at
http://www.oikotie.fi
http://www.etuovi.com or rentals: http://www.vuokraovi.com

Prices vary greatly, naturally - the further you are from Helsinki, the cheaper it gets, as a very simplistic rule of thumb. Towns like Turku and Tampere will have a 'Turku/'Tampere extra' in the prices, just because they are the next larger towns in the southern regions.
And other larger towns are also ok for jobs and such; life as we know it does not end at the ring road (Kehä III) of the capital area, no matter what the people living there might tell you.

Living expenses depend on you and your consumption level, search for some examples on this site for minimum. I've noticed that mine generally have stayed within the same levels, whether I was living on the east coast of the US, in London, UK, or here (I'm a native Finn) - although rent abroad was much higher than here for similar sized flats. My Aussie hubby says rents here are lot lower than back home, but in general, fresh produce and meat are more expensive in Finland. And he keeps saying that any entertainment systems (computers, tv, consoles, etc) and related parts and attachments, are ridiculously expensive here - I can confirm that also when comparing to the US and the UK. Imported stuff tends to be much more expensive here than countries mentioned above, or even Central European countries, for instance.

And unless your cat is really sickly (hope not!), I wouldn't worry about vet bills, they are quite reasonable here, so is cat food. Find vets & their clinics with searches like eläinlääkäri (vet, literally 'animal doctor'), or eläinklinikka. There are also town vet clinics in most towns and counties, that are cheaper than the private ones, e.g. for basic shots for cats & dogs, and emergencies.
Just remember to check the applicable requirements when travelling with a pet from outside the EU, these are quite strict here (not as strict as the UK or Aus), requiring micro chip, vaccinations, and 'the waiting period', i.e.. proof of rabies antibodies (usually min. 21 days before travel), etc. http://www.evira.fi/portal/en/animals/i ... +movement/
And verify from your airlines that they do take cats, and make reservations early enough! That'll be very important to confirm (possibly a few times), as you likely don't want your furry friend to stay behind alone.
I have friends who travel with their pets regularly, and I've taken my dog to the US, not always such a simple task.

And while talking about emergencies and healthcare, make sure you have good insurances for healthcare when arriving (also find further info on this forum). You will get emergency treatment here, too, but as someone without municipal rights at first (kotikuntaoikeus) via proper residence permits, it will be quite expensive. After you get settled, and are 'in the system/on the computer', healthcare is very reasonably priced.

A lot of Finnish websites providing you info about the towns, counties, their services, infrastructure, shops, vets, etc., also have info in English - or you can google suitable similar sites in English.

[Pursuivant]

What do we expect from Finland? A more human-scale life, where fridges are smaller than a cube van, no need for intercom in your home, food that made of natural ingredients and an economy not based on consumption alone.
Throw in some good fishing and hunting,couple of Saab and a SAUNA and we are golden.

Technically, whatever described about the migrants in Oyrop, happening in Canada as we speak. To the letter. Your girlfriend couldnt wear shorts around certain area of Toronto, without being ridiculed the least.
The reason we choose Finnland over other Scandinavian countries is the our assumption that is free(er) from this epidemic. yet.

Hell, if I wanted to avoid all that "cultural enrichment" and live on a lake in the boonies, I'd want to move to Canada.
Read the news, man. http://yle.fi/uutiset/pm_sipila_pledges ... es/8282824