Signing kids up for day care

[bf421]

Ok I have a question, and I'll admit this includes a bit of a rant about the bureaucracy here in Finland.

I arrived in Finland 2 weeks ago. I start school full time plus work part time on Monday, and I am in need of child care by then. I tried to sign my kids up on the city of Helsinki's website using the e-service, but it requires me to log in with a bank account.

I went to Nordea two days ago to get a bank account, but only after the fact was I told that I can't use the account for online authentication because I don't have a Finnish ID card (apparently a U.S. passport + residence permit + Finnnish id number isn't enough to prove my identity?). I've called other banks (OP, Danske Bank)

Ok, so I went to the Poliisi to apply for an ID card. However, they couldn't issue one because I'm not in the population registry. I went to the Helsinki Magistrate on Monday and registered my self, but it takes up to two weeks to get into the system. Really? Two weeks to get into a computer system?

Now what am I supposed to do? The University of Helsinki's student union has a day care, but it's a maximum of 3 hours per day, and that isn't enough for me. Private day cares are too expensive for me to afford. I tried to call the city's day care but I just keep getting a recording in Finnish. Can I not just get my kids enrolled in daycare without a bank login (I have a bank account, it just can't be used for their e-service)?

Is this deliberate bias against foreigners, or is their bureaucracy seriously just this annoying and inefficient?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[tavastia]

Don't know about the daycare but Nordea will not give you any online banking account (not even for bank login only, without signature) only after 3 months you have lived here and had constant income coming to your account. And even after 3 months they will ask something else, e.g. they told a friend after 2 years here that he needs to have permanent residence, and still not give it. Other banks are better but you will have to be into the population register.

[koolkitzkatz]

When you move to a new country with kids, please look for some information before ranting about that country's rules.

[Honest]

Just imagine that you are still in America where money is needed to get even most of the basic things.

You made a mistake and you have to pay for it. You don't just take your kid and a bag and jump on an aeroplane. You should have done your home work.

[bf421]

Most students who get Residence Permit to study in Finland gets registered into system and Personal Identification Code (your SSN equivalent) with the RP. So why you didn't get your PIN with RP? why didn't you ask the embassy when you didn't receive one? See, a bit of research, planning and knowledge about the country you are going to move isn't too much to ask and you should've prepared yourself.

I *did* do my homework. Yes, I did get a personal identity code/social security number/whatever it's called (birthdate - three numbers and a letter). However, that does *not* register me with the municipality, which you have to do in person at the magistrate office after arriving. That's how I get in the population system. There is nothing I could have done before arriving that could have sped this up. Okay, maybe I get that it takes some time to be validated or whatever, if it requires a person to review it before I'm in the system.

Still, it's not exactly clear to me how I can get a paper application for day care (which I'm happy to do, and I can go into an office to identify myself if necessary, if I can find out where).

[bf421]

JustYou made a mistake and you have to pay for it. You don't just take your kid and a bag and jump on an aeroplane. You should have done your home work.

Can you clarify what the mistake on my part is?

[Honest]

JustYou made a mistake and you have to pay for it. You don't just take your kid and a bag and jump on an aeroplane. You should have done your home work.

Can you clarify what the mistake on my part is?

Home work! You should have checked/read about how the system works here.

[bf421]

Well I did the research, which is why I signed up for an identity number when getting my RP, and why I went to the Magistrate as soon as I got here. That's not what the problem is.

Anyway, I'm not here to bicker. The problem at hand is that I need child care asap, and it seems like I'm stuck right now. If anyone can provide helpful advice, such as how to get paper daycare applications and where to take them, then I'm happy to continue the conversation.

[betelgeuse]

Well I did the research, which is why I signed up for an identity number when getting my RP, and why I went to the Magistrate as soon as I got here. That's not what the problem is.

Anyway, I'm not here to bicker. The problem at hand is that I need child care asap, and it seems like I'm stuck right now. If anyone can provide helpful advice, such as how to get paper daycare applications and where to take them, then I'm happy to continue the conversation.

Your research wasn't very good when the first it on Google for "helsinki applying for day care" says this:

http://www.hel.fi/www/helsinki/en/day-c ... g/applying

Applying with an application form

Application forms for daycare are used in the following cases:

• The child does not have a Finnish identification number.
• The family does not have an on-line service from a Finnish bank.
• Applying using the electronic application is otherwise not possible.

Ok, so I went to the Poliisi to apply for an ID card. However, they couldn't issue one because I'm not in the population registry. I went to the Helsinki Magistrate on Monday and registered my self, but it takes up to two weeks to get into the system. Really? Two weeks to get into a computer system?

You are in the population registry because you have an ID number. However, you do not have a municipality of residence which is required for the ID card.

Is this deliberate bias against foreigners, or is their bureaucracy seriously just this annoying and inefficient?

The list of accepted documents for first time identification for online identification is listed in the legislation. Making a residence permit an ID card would at least require to have a picture on it.

[leisl]

Wow people. A bit rough don't you think? I live here and even I think that the process seems stupidly convoluted and complicated. The best of research doesn't uncover all Finland's stupid complexities in advance, I can assure you! I speak from experience, learning the "interesting" way that things don't go exactly the way that even the official departments tell you they will (in our case: maistraatti, TE office and also police).

The problem at hand is that I need child care asap, and it seems like I'm stuck right now. If anyone can provide helpful advice... then I'm happy to continue the conversation.

Advertise the times you need, the ages of your children and the amount per hour you're willing to pay.

[Honest]

Advertise the times you need, the ages of your children and the amount per hour you're willing to pay.

And there is always a risk of an idiot, psycho or in worst case a pedophile.

[nanghelo]

In our experience, the Finnish day care system is wonderful, and the application process is a little confusing. It really is hard to understand everything just using internet searches before you arrive -- there are just so many things to think about and so many questions you might not realize you need to ask.

Anyway, in case you haven't found it yet, here is the link to the paper form: http://www.hel.fi/static/vaka/liitteet/ ... 017_en.pdf

You can take this directly to the day care you're interested in applying to. Also contact the director of that day care. They're all listed under this page: http://www.hel.fi/www/helsinki/en/day-c ... g/applying

If you're starting a new job or full-time school, as I understand it, the city will do everything it can to make sure you get a space within two weeks (hopefully less).

Until then, you might be able to arrange "temporary day care". It's expensive but would help in a pinch. http://www.hel.fi/www/Helsinki/en/day-c ... temporary/

[Pursuivant]

Nowadays banks are just another horror story for foreigners, I heard it takes about 3 to 6 months to receive online banking + online identification facilities.

Oh, one part there "US passport", it makes banks go "thank you, goodbye"... Something to do with fat cats... FATCA 2012
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/35383435

[leisl]

Advertise the times you need, the ages of your children and the amount per hour you're willing to pay.

And there is always a risk of an idiot, psycho or in worst case a pedophile.

Yes you're quite right - nobody in the entire universe should ever hire a babysitter as there is no opportunity to meet the person, observe them with your child or contact references.

Or you could, you know, not bother with idiotic and unhelpful statements like the above. You clearly think parents should never leave the house until their child reaches university.

[Rip]

Wow people. A bit rough don't you think? I live here and even I think that the process seems stupidly convoluted and complicated.

I can understand if one does not like peculiarities of Finnish bureaucracy. Not having the paper application printed out and filled when arriving two weeks ago is harder to understand. OP got so fixed with those bank codes when the topic should have been day care.

(I would have certainly also tried contacting the day care by email/phone to ask if the process by any chance would have been possible to start even before arriving here by mailing the form)