Move to finland based on Personal Relationship....

[curiousgirl]

Hi All

I am 28, I went to Finland last year for a 2 months business trip. I fell in love with a Finnish guy who worked with me. We both are working in same MNC company but I am in India and he is in Finland. I have been trying to move to Finland but somehow that is not getting materialized from my current company as there are some complications due to organizational setup. We are working in Structural Design firms (Related to design engineers in Construction industry). I am trying to find jobs from here in India to finland but I think it will be much easier to do it once I am there in Finland. I already have relevant work experience and BTECH in civil engineering (from India) and other relevant experience in a lot of big construction projects in Finland. I don't know finnish but my job profile is impressive and I am tagged to one of the largest Construction company in Finland.
My boyfriend has visited me in India recently too. We have been in touch through net every single day since past 1 year. We have not cohabited as it was only on holidays we met. So, we don't stand a chance for family ties. We have plans to get married but we first want to get at one place, introduce our families to each other and then have a wedding. I came across the option of temporary RP (B). I wish to apply for RP (B) on special grounds i.e. private intimate relationship. I will do it from India only and if I get it, I wish to leave my job here and move to Finland. Then I can find a job here as I know quite many people there in our field and can get references. I can show our travel to and from India to Finland to authorities.I can show 8400 euros in my account and also tell authorities that I will live with my BF in Finland. We can say to them that we intend to marry.
Study is not an option for now as it has become too expensive.
I want to know what are the chances that I get the RP (B) .

[Beep_Boop]

I want to know what are the chances that I get the RP (B) .

From what you described, you seem to have your bases covered. However, people on the internet aren't going to be processing your application, so if they tell you your chances are 5% you'll be sad, and if they tell you they're 90% you'll be happy, but all of that won't matter - the decision is in the hands of the case officer who will process your application.

Read through the requirements on Migri site. If you think you fulfill them, go apply. That's the best advice you can get.

[Pursuivant]

OK, no, you are not "special". That category is for "special" that doesn't fit into any other category - say if you had a siamese twin that needed a rp as well... Special means *special*. You are just normal "I want"...

[leisl]

"Special" category is not for people who SHOULD have to meet the ordinary requirements. Like you. We get a lot of people who come into the forums expressing their intent to use this category, but nearly always, the only reason for using this category is because they can't meet the normal requirements. It's not for that. It's for people whose situation is really unusual and doesn't fit into usual categories.

Not being able to meet requirements means "no Finland for you". The most likely scenario is that you waste your time and money.

As an aside I know you're highly qualified but you seem to be glossing over the fact that in Finland, the vast majority of jobs require Finnish. It has nothing to do with whether you "can" do these jobs or have a shiny CV with experience outside Finland, it has to do with whether you're the best candidate for a job INSIDE Finland. Nearly every single time, there will be someone else whose engineering qualifications are no better than yours, but they speak Finnish. Meaning you just won't be chosen.

If your connections are as good as you say, you can be offered a job now. Once you have a job offer you can apply for a residence permit here based on employment. So test these connections out and ask for them to extend the offer and you will see just how genuine those connections are. It will also show you just how impressive your CV is... because they cannot offer you the job unless they can prove there are no EU people able to take the job, making you the best candidate. They will also have to do stupid red tape and wait potentially months to find out whether your residence permit is even granted, before you can move here and start working. Hopefully they will consider you worth it and do this for you.

(One other thing... if you cannot afford to study, can your BF even afford to support you here? He may have to show that he can unless you already have a job offer here.)

Plan C: can you come here on a Specialist residence permit? I would assume probably not because you mentioned that you can't afford to study. But it might be worth looking into in case I'm wrong.

[curiousgirl]

My BF can support me there. But I want to be able to support myself. I am not looking for any govt. aides either. Yes you are right that a very special snowflake is that lucky whose boss is going to go to that much trouble with red tape etc. to recruit me. That is why I want some other option to go there first and then its easier to find job with or without my connections because they don't have to do so much paperwork.I have had some talks with companies there. They liked my resume and are willing to recruit. But they said they are simply too busy to go through that amount of paperwork. They will be more willing to recruit if I am there on some other basis and already have a resident permit. Secondly, its all over internet that there is acute shortage of construction engineers in Finland. The kind of companies we work in, they are recruiting English speaking people. Also, I have started learning Finnish and level 1 is cleared where I Know their number system, colors, basic things, shapes, few technical terms, transport, seasons, grocery etc etc. Ofcourse I need much more but I can have higher level coaching there in Finland.
I wanted to proceed with special case because it was mentioned in migri... that if you don't fit in the category of "family ties", then you can apply for personal relationship...
I know its not a special case... But still any more advice on other options or how can I make my case stronger? And yes I am trying my best to find employment from here too.

[rinso]

Safest route is getting married and then RP based on family ties.
To Migri using "personal relationship" sounds like "I want the benefits but not the obligations". It won't lead to a RP.

Study is not an option for now as it has become too expensive.

Which means that you cannot support yourself. And being able to do that is the basic principle behind all residents permits.
(and no, being sponsored by a "personal relationship" is not an acceptable option for migri)

[leisl]

Yep... get married, it's the simplest way. If you like, have a simple 10 minutes with the magistrate to get it official, and then do your big family commitment ceremony and reception a few months down the track.

I should have clarified by what I meant when I talked about your boyfriend being able to support you. It's not about whether he's willing and has enough cash to feed you, it's whether he meets the monetary requirements imposed by Migri for a residence permit (and again, that requires that you either prove the special relationship or get married and apply for family ties).

I'm afraid I have to agree with rinso, if you can't afford the university fees than I would also feel that supporting yourself here might be very difficult, as it points to the above - that your boyfriend can't support the pair of you on one wage.

That's not a crime of course, my partner and I lived on one income for a very long time due to study, and it's more common in Helsinki in the 21st century than people like to admit. But I'm going to point out one thing in your quote where you contradicted yourself and which concerns me - yes concern, rather than just criticism.

I have had some talks with companies there. They liked my resume and are willing to recruit. But they said they are simply too busy to go through that amount of paperwork.

Secondly, its all over internet that there is acute shortage of construction engineers in Finland. The kind of companies we work in, they are recruiting English speaking people.

When there is an acute shortage of workers which is as dire as you indicate, forcing people to recruit non-Finnish speakers, companies are willing do to the paperwork, as there is no alternative.

Basically, both cannot be true. You're either being partially sold a media hype-up or the companies don't actually have the positions sitting vacant as long as they claim. A handful of recruiters who can't fill a handful of positions tend to be very loud (I was a recruiter in the past). My guess is they're just filling the positions from within the EU and are annoyed it's taking them a month instead of two weeks to fill. Yes, it probably means you'll find some kind of associated work once your residence permit is sorted, but it also means you won't be a shoe-in for any role you desire as there will actually be competition. Believe me, I know how that feels!

[leisl]

it's whether he meets the monetary requirements imposed by Migri for a residence permit

The proposal of income requirements for spouse/partner of Finnish citizen was dismissed long time ago. There's no income requirements in case of marriage as the man is Finnish.

I was referring to my earlier quote, which had no mention of getting married, in which case, support is required, as neither a partner in a "personal relationship" nor an "intending to get married" partner is considered a family member under Finnish law. And you've cut off half my quote where I actually specifically mentioned the special relationship application.

From Migri:

A partner in a personal relationship is not a family member

When you apply for a residence permit on the basis of a personal relationship or the intention to marry, the income of the partner in the personal relationship living in Finland is not taken into account because, according to the Finnish law, you are not considered to be family members. The funds necessary to fulfill the income requirement (1. adult/€1,000/month) must be freely available, for example through your own bank account.

On the other hand, this DOES seem to indicate that the personal relationship application could be used for those intending to marry.

I have my suspicions though that it's not for every Tom, Dick and Harry who has an engagement band. They are likely to be looking for some other reason that you can't fulfill the normal requirements and/or simply marry first.

[Rip]

One can try this
http://www.migri.fi/moving_to_finland_t ... lationship

- but is not obvious the application would be accepted and processing could be slow. Also, afterwards you'd need to get the employer to understand that you're a specialist able to work with that permit (and find that employer in the first place. Unfortunately it is easier to say "I'd hire you if only..." than just dropping out the conditional part.

Better status and more likely approval with wedding ring or work contract in hand.

[curiousgirl]

Hey Guys

Thanks all for the helpful replies. I am trying hard to find more and more options to seek employment in Finland from here. Yes companies are desperate to hire professionals from our field specially experienced ones, but Finns have this problem of not trusting people enough till they have met them. Plus big tag of NON EU and NON Finnish speaking is attached to me. Good thing is that I am working in such firm which has nice reputation in Finland. Fortunately through one of my contacts, I have got my request rolling in one company. Its getting processed a little slow but I am just hoping something positive comes out of it.
No matter how much I love the guy or he loves me, this is not the way we thought we will get married. Like every other girl I want the guy to propose for marriage first, then I want families to meet and then get married. I mean who wants to get married for RP? That sounds so sad to me. Plus like every self respecting person, I want to earn my own money.
Can anyone please tell me what are the procedures involved for employers to recruit Non EU workers? Maybe I can help the companies with speeding up the procedures or suggesting them things. Is the paperwork really much and scary as is general perception? Is the immigration department really strict with companies in grilling them over choosing Non EU employee?
I read the suggestions of all and I don't think I will proceed with application of RP based on Personal Relationship. Because there is high probability that it gets rejected. And yes if the world wants to know , we are sleeping together but I don't have a way to prove that to migri I agree that our special case when compared with the other special cases of human trafficking or a child away from mother, old parent living alone somewhere, etc. will look very small. So I don't want to take risk of getting the application rejected and then it becoming like a negative star always. It might spoil any further chances. For now, me and my bf are searching all the opportunities for me to get employment. My bf is from same field as me. But these days are quite stressful with so much planning and waiting. Its sad that there are so many boundaries in the world and you can't be with the person you love.
But I am happy that at least I am getting nice suggestions. More suggestions and point of views are welcome.I hope I get to be there soon. I am also thinking about fixing meetings with few companies and going there for interviews. I am contacting HR of companies on LinkedIn too. They are at least adding me to their connections seeing my profile. I hope they agree for meetings too. Hopeful!!!

[Piet]

I do not want to discourage the OP, but in her field of work, there are more than enough Finnish people with the same or better qualifications that are jobless now. Then there are enough EU immigrants with the same or better education AND experience that are jobless AND do speak Finnish...(like me.... but I don't need to work any more....old enough to get out of working life and don't need the money )

So don't hold your breath on this one.

to give an example, last winter I was a little bored and applied for fun on a job (similar field of work), despite my high age, I got invited for an interview together with 4 others out of a pool of 341 applicants. The job went to the Native Finn (me and 2 others were foreigners). This was not the first time, I have had multiple interviews in Finland since I live here (>20 yrs) and made it multiple times to the top 2 or 3 candidates, in all cases the 2nd interview with also the "to be co workers" present, made sure the native Finn was chosen, and who can blame them... I would do the same... (that is when I decided to start for myself... best decision ever ).

anyway good luck...

[SAHM]

I know two people, working purely in english, but they have skills that are rare in Finland. You have to be absolutely amazing in order to get a job without speaking any finnish if there are Finnish applicants available.

[curiousgirl]

to give an example, last winter I was a little bored and applied for fun on a job (similar field of work), despite my high age, I got invited for an interview together with 4 others out of a pool of 341 applicants. The job went to the Native Finn (me and 2 others were foreigners). This was not the first time, I have had multiple interviews in Finland since I live here (>20 yrs) and made it multiple times to the top 2 or 3 candidates, in all cases the 2nd interview with also the "to be co workers" present, made sure the native Finn was chosen, and who can blame them... I would do the same...

anyway good luck...

Thanks Piet!! I know I might look like a fool right now. But love makes you do weird things. I am well aware that Finnish economy is quite low right now. People are jobless. Indian economy on the other hand is on boom. I have much better career prospects here. But still I am not gonna back off unless I try my 200% and exhaust all my options.

[leisl]

No matter how much I love the guy or he loves me, this is not the way we thought we will get married. Like every other girl I want the guy to propose for marriage first, then I want families to meet and then get married. I mean who wants to get married for RP? That sounds so sad to me.

Sure. But it really only requires a perspective change and "getting over it" in your own minds... I also ended up getting married just to make life easier with my partner in terms of emigration. It only makes your marriage less special if you THINK it is less special. You could always look at it this way: you loved each other deeply enough to move your entire life to be with him, and that meant the small sacrifice of marrying in a simple service, and having your big wedding party and family introductions at a later time.

In the end, you can definitely make the fifteen-minute "I do" part be far less important than the overall long-term, loving commitment that you're making to each other.

Optional: keep the ceremony quiet from your families until after it's done, perhaps even until you invite them to your big commitment ceremony and party, where you can simply explain that one tiny part of it all is already complete (if they even ask - write your own vows and they might never even know). How you go about ticking the emigration boxes? It's none of their business anyway.

[curiousgirl]

Sure. But it really only requires a perspective change and "getting over it" in your own minds... I also ended up getting married just to make life easier with my partner in terms of emigration. It only makes your marriage less special if you THINK it is less special. You could always look at it this way: you loved each other deeply enough to move your entire life to be with him, and that meant the small sacrifice of marrying in a simple service, and having your big wedding party and family introductions at a later time.

Leisl you gave a nice perspective. Me and my boyfriend both read it. We will think this through as well. I want to thank you for nice advice.