Missing "Paskakaupunki" considering moving back to Finland

[Caroline]

Hello Finns and expats in Finland: it has been a very long time since I have posted on this forum, but I'm interested in hearing your opinions about the current "vibe" in Finland- would you recommend moving there or not? Are there any former expats on here (from any country) who left Finland "permanently" and have moved or considered moving back?

I'm American and my husband is from Ranua county- if you understood the joke in the subject line, we used to live in Oulu...we lived there together from 2000-2005. We visited there together in '07 and my husband visited solo in 2012. I have a Finnish driver's license and I passed the Finnish language exam to qualify for citizenship. Of course much has changed....we try to keep up with the news as best we can. How do folks feel about the suburbs of Oulunsalo, Kiiminki, Yli-Ii, and Haukipudas merging with the city of Oulu?

We are in our mid-40's, childless, and have lived in New Hampshire, USA for about 14 years...fairly harsh winters here too, so except for the darkness, readjusting to the climate in Finland would not be difficult. We are doing well here- working full time, own a house, etc., but I feel like our fellow local expat Finnish friends are the only thing keeping us here, and even some of them have moved or are in the process of moving back to Finland, for various reasons. My husband loves it here and isn't interested in moving back to Finland yet...maybe some day. The only thing that would motivate him to want to move sooner would be escaping Trump's America. We do not own real estate in Finland. I have kept up my Finnish language practice by studying on my own and speaking Finnish with my husband and our friends. I'm aware that there is currently a center-right government in Finland and a lot of anti-immigrant sentiment. If we move back, Oulu is probably the only city we'd consider....my husband's siblings live there, we were married there, it's the most familiar city to us.

[heretostay]

There is a very active group of American ex-pats in Oulu that I am aware of. I will send you a PM

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

I'm aware that there is currently a center-right government in Finland and a lot of anti-immigrant sentiment. If we move back, Oulu is probably the only city we'd consider....my husband's siblings live there, we were married there, it's the most familiar city to us.

By comparison to almost anywhere else, the Finnish "right" as sitting in the parliament is pretty left wing. The "sentiment" is about the aftermath of comparatively large influx of refugees in 2015, the impact of which is now being seen and felt, how it was and has been handled, what kind of changes are wanted to prevent it getting even worse. It's not like you (personally) are likely to be harassed on the street because you're an "immigrant".

[undertakerfreak]

American expat here. Been here since last April. I'd never dream of returning to the US; it's a !"#¤% that I'm ashamed to be a citizen of, quite frankly. I've never been happier since I moved here.

This is a beautiful country that runs comparatively very smoothly to where I come from, and no native Finn should take it for granted.

[chaDirector]

There is a very active group of American ex-pats in Oulu that I am aware of. I will send you a PM

Heretostay – If you could send me the contact details for that group list, I'd very much appreciate it. Would like to get in touch with them. Thanks.

Cha

[heretostay]

I will send you a private message

[Caroline]

Follow-up: so, we were in Finland for a couple of weeks on vacation a couple of months ago, in July. I want to share some notes about our experiences and observations. We visited Helsinki, Espoo, Porvoo, Tampere, Oulu, and Ranua. I had a wonderful time reminiscing, visiting with longtime friends and in-laws, meeting new contacts, checking out new developments, etc. It felt great to hold my Finnish driver's license again. I was worried about re-entry culture shock, but there was less than I expected. I had no problems communicating in Finnish, although there were a few surprises, one specific example that "burgeri" has apparently replaced "hampurilainen"?? My husband experienced confusion trying to order an "IPA" at a bar in Tampere; the staff did not understand the way he pronounced it, and he had to point to what he wanted.

Summertime there can be deceptive, though, and there is a big difference between visiting a place and living there, so just because I had a great time, does not mean that we could or should live there again.

My husband was not left with such a positive impression. He said that he did not like what he saw concerning the direction that things are going there., but it's hard to tell whether that was simply typical re-entry culture shock of visiting home after a long time away, or if he was really noticing troubling things that I either couldn't see or refused to see. One thing that I will admit that is a bit worrisome is that I found out that some more expats I used to know there have left in recent years in favor of better opportunities elsewhere, and at least a couple more want to leave. Some folks who used to have professional level jobs have had to go back to doing entry-level work because it's all they can find. During our several day stay in Oulu, my husband remarked that it was eerie that he did not run into a single person that he knew....he said it seemed like everyone had left. We are both aware that one of the reasons for that is the loss of Nokia jobs that attracted both Finns and expats to the area; the Oulu and Helsinki economies have stagnated, and that Tampere is the fastest growing city in Finland. So if we actually do move back there, it's unlikely that we would live in Oulu again. Overall, between the positive and negative, looking forward to our next visit.

[Caroline]

American expat here. Been here since last April. I'd never dream of returning to the US; it's a !"#¤% that I'm ashamed to be a citizen of, quite frankly. I've never been happier since I moved here.

This is a beautiful country that runs comparatively very smoothly to where I come from, and no native Finn should take it for granted.

It's great that you are doing well in Finland, but living standards are also relative. Many people, including Americans, do not realize how big and diverse the US is in terms of quality of life, and that some states in the US are almost comparable to the nordic countries (the nordic countries are still a bit better in some ways), but anyway, for folks who have a choice, that makes it harder to decide whether to stay or leave. If you lived in Finland during the tech boom of the late 90's and early 2000's and compared it to now, you'd probably be concerned about Finland's future. But if you're currently coming from a poor state or an unfavorable situation in the US, then Finland might look appealing even with a faltering economy and society. Our dilemma is that, while we are both homesick for Finland, our state is consistently ranked among the top 5 in the US for quality of life and the job possibilities for both of us are much better in the US right now. My husband pointed out a long time ago that all other factors aside (rankings, income, etc), people will tend to go where their "tribe" is, whether that includes friends or family or both. So, we'll see...I guess the right decision will become obvious with time.

[browndude]

Things have changed a lot since the early 2000's. Your husband left Finland a long time ago and it might be actually quite difficult for him to readjust because this is not the same country it was when he left-perhaps he had/has reasons for leaving that makes it difficult for him to come back. Visiting now and then really does not give you a good sense of a place and for him especially, the culture shock may be quite extreme. For me personally, at this point in life, Finland is pretty great to live and work in. I have lived and worked in the US and have no particular dislike of it. But I no longer have any desire to reside there regardless of who is president there . The big issue for you, and indeed for many immigrants, would be finding meaningful work here. It is a small, competitive and sometimes insular job market. But I will also add that at the same time, employers are struggling mightily to find qualified candidates for some kinds of jobs-if you are skilled at some of those kinds of jobs then you are in luck.

[betelgeuse]

We are both aware that one of the reasons for that is the loss of Nokia jobs that attracted both Finns and expats to the area; the Oulu and Helsinki economies have stagnated, and that Tampere is the fastest growing city in Finland

What measure of growth do you refer to? By population growth, there are many municipalities that grew faster in 2018.

https://www.tilastokeskus.fi/tup/suoluk ... aesto.html

[Caroline]

We are both aware that one of the reasons for that is the loss of Nokia jobs that attracted both Finns and expats to the area; the Oulu and Helsinki economies have stagnated, and that Tampere is the fastest growing city in Finland

What measure of growth do you refer to? By population growth, there are many municipalities that grew faster in 2018.

https://www.tilastokeskus.fi/tup/suoluk ... aesto.html

betelgeuse both population and economic growth...I probably should have used the term "most dynamic" instead.... https://www.hs.fi/talous/art-2000006010150.html

https://www.sponda.fi/en/magazine/a-dyn ... re-finland

Also, Tampere is getting a tram/trolley system soon, which will strengthen its appeal as a destination.

[Caroline]

Things have changed a lot since the early 2000's. Your husband left Finland a long time ago and it might be actually quite difficult for him to readjust because this is not the same country it was when he left-perhaps he had/has reasons for leaving that makes it difficult for him to come back. Visiting now and then really does not give you a good sense of a place and for him especially, the culture shock may be quite extreme. For me personally, at this point in life, Finland is pretty great to live and work in. I have lived and worked in the US and have no particular dislike of it. But I no longer have any desire to reside there regardless of who is president there . The big issue for you, and indeed for many immigrants, would be finding meaningful work here. It is a small, competitive and sometimes insular job market. But I will also add that at the same time, employers are struggling mightily to find qualified candidates for some kinds of jobs-if you are skilled at some of those kinds of jobs then you are in luck.

Hi browndude, I'm not sure I would agree that things have changed *a lot* in Finland since the early 2000's. Of course change is all relative, and every place in the world changes over time; no such thing as a place that stays static. But there are other EEA/EU countries that have debatably changed much more than Finland in the same time frame. Two Finnish and Finnish-international families that we know recently moved back to Finland after living here in the U.S. for at least a decade, so it is definitely possible, although I'm not sure how they are doing on the psychological aspect of the adjustment. I'm not sure if you read my entire original post, but I did live in Finland, met my husband there, we married there, and moved to the U.S. together, so I thought I already hinted at why my husband left Finland and that I already know what it's like to be an expat there. I'm aware that the job market is still tight for both Finns and expats, even for those who speak fluent Finnish as I do......so that's one thing that really has not changed much in 20 years. But yes, a move back would likely demand either a change in career fields or being financial self-supporting.

[paintballsean]

American expat here. Been here since last April. I'd never dream of returning to the US; it's a !"#¤% that I'm ashamed to be a citizen of, quite frankly. I've never been happier since I moved here.

This is a beautiful country that runs comparatively very smoothly to where I come from, and no native Finn should take it for granted.

i also am ashamed i am a citizen of the usa i wish i could move to finland