Budget Question

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III
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:42 pm

Budget Question

Post by III » Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:56 am

I'm considering a job in InfoSec with a gross salary of 65000/yr. My partner does not speak Finnish so we can't count on her being able to get a job. We're also bringing our 2 children ages 1 and 3. Would that salary allow us to live comfortably and save a little in the Espoo area?



Budget Question

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FinlandGirl
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Budget Question

Post by FinlandGirl » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:20 am

III wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:56 am
I'm considering a job in InfoSec with a gross salary of 65000/yr. My partner does not speak Finnish so we can't count on her being able to get a job. We're also bringing our 2 children ages 1 and 3. Would that salary allow us to live comfortably and save a little in the Espoo area?
Average income in Finland is 3540 Euro per month, and usually both partners are working.
Your family would not be living in poverty, but have below average income.
Without a mortgage you will be living comfortably, but not saving much.

betelgeuse
Posts: 3622
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Budget Question

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:46 am

FinlandGirl wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:20 am
III wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:56 am
I'm considering a job in InfoSec with a gross salary of 65000/yr. My partner does not speak Finnish so we can't count on her being able to get a job. We're also bringing our 2 children ages 1 and 3. Would that salary allow us to live comfortably and save a little in the Espoo area?
Average income in Finland is 3540 Euro per month, and usually both partners are working.
Your family would not be living in poverty, but have below average income.
Without a mortgage you will be living comfortably, but not saving much.
The average income for a household of “ Couples with children, all children under the age of 7” was 59,506€ in 2017.

http://pxnet2.stat.fi/PXWeb/pxweb/en/St ... xt_002.px/

You also have to factor in that the family would be getting in multiple Kela benefits like child benefits so the income is more than 65000. As living confortable is subjective the original poster should do a budgeting exercise but objectively the income is enough to live and save some.

betelgeuse
Posts: 3622
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Budget Question

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:00 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:46 am

The average income for a household of “ Couples with children, all children under the age of 7” was 59,506€ in 2017.

http://pxnet2.stat.fi/PXWeb/pxweb/en/St ... xt_002.px/

You also have to factor in that the family would be getting in multiple Kela benefits like child benefits so the income is more than 65000. As living confortable is subjective the original poster should do a budgeting exercise but objectively the income is enough to live and save some.
Actually the statistics use the concept of disposable income so the two numbers in my comment can’t directly be compared. Using disposable cash income would have also been a better selection. Any way a reader can use the tables for their own research.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Budget Question

Post by FinlandGirl » Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:38 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:46 am
Couples with children, all children under the age of 7
Parental leave temporarily lowers the household income to a level that is often below expenses.
betelgeuse wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:00 am
Actually the statistics use the concept of disposable income so the two numbers in my comment can’t directly be compared. Using disposable cash income would have also been a better selection. Any way a reader can use the tables for their own research.
65,000€ salary is around 42,500€ disposable income.

Comfortably living from one 5k income plus government payments is doable in Espoo, but I wouldn't expect leftover money for saving.

inkku
Posts: 808
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:26 pm

Re: Budget Question

Post by inkku » Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:47 pm

Average salary does not say anything about living comfortably. Median salary tells more but still far away. The kids of small so expenses are smaller.
In my opinion, the best would be the OP to do calculations by himself. Expenses depend so much on the lifestyle. Having two cars, eating and drinking constantly out, buying expensive meat, vegetables and fruit throughout the year. everything depends on the adaptation to local supply and way of living. Some items or services in Finland are very expensive, some less.

III
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:42 pm

Re: Budget Question

Post by III » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:02 pm

I would like to do a budget but I'm having difficulty finding a resource for the mundane things like groceries, restaurants, etc. But I'll be in Espoo this weekend so I will take a look around. On a related note, how do the Fins generally view immigrants?

FinlandGirl
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Budget Question

Post by FinlandGirl » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:47 pm

III wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:02 pm
On a related note, how do the Fins generally view immigrants?
The capital region is pretty multicultural, and in kindergarten your children will also play with black muslim children.

jarikaija
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Re: Budget Question

Post by jarikaija » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:04 am

FinlandGirl wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:20 am
Average income in Finland is 3540 Euro per month, and usually both partners are working.
Uhhh.... to get that kind of salaries, is only a dream for most of finnish
people. I do engineer level job myself at factory and I get only 3000/month
and when taxes paid, I get about 2100-2200/month to my hand.

So, if not at least high educated, you can forget those salaries.

And MOST OF my friends get only 1700-2500 / month after taxes
about 1200-1800. They work as restaurants, different kind of
factories, nurses, kids day caring etc...

FinlandGirl
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Budget Question

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:23 am

jarikaija wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:04 am
FinlandGirl wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:20 am
Average income in Finland is 3540 Euro per month, and usually both partners are working.
Uhhh.... to get that kind of salaries, is only a dream for most of finnish
people. I do engineer level job myself at factory and I get only 3000/month
and when taxes paid, I get about 2100-2200/month to my hand.

So, if not at least high educated, you can forget those salaries.
In 2018 the median salary in the private sector in Finland was 3,278 Euro.
Exactly half of all employees earn less, and half of all employees earn more.
It is expected that people without a university degree are usually in the bottom half.
jarikaija wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:04 am
And MOST OF my friends get only 1700-2500 / month after taxes
about 1200-1800. They work as restaurants, different kind of
factories, nurses, kids day caring etc...
90% of all employees in the private sector earn more than 2,186 Euro (before taxes), people employed in restaurants are often in the bottom 10% who earn less.

inkku
Posts: 808
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:26 pm

Re: Budget Question

Post by inkku » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:40 am

When using "average" statistics, you have to check how the statistics were composed. For instance, if I remember right it considers only employees full time employed. So I would be wary how to use them. Honestly, I would not look at them at all.

inkku
Posts: 808
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:26 pm

Re: Budget Question

Post by inkku » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:48 am

III wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:02 pm
I would like to do a budget but I'm having difficulty finding a resource for the mundane things like groceries, restaurants, etc. But I'll be in Espoo this weekend so I will take a look around. On a related note, how do the Fins generally view immigrants?
There are previous queries regarding the prices, search them. Many people have asked the same question, Anything linked to services is terribly expensive: restaurants, hairdressers, tailoring, etc.... groceries quite expensive though Lidl has brought some consolation.

Finland is not genuinely multicultural, so immigrants will need to do much more adaptation than in other European countries. Some Finns are openly racist, very deplorable, and there is little protection what the state provides there. Hate speech is increasingly tolerated.
There is nothing like an average immigrant, some find it impossible, some find it easy. Depends on your own culture, ability to assimilate at least to some extent. And on your race, unfortunately. Contacting your fellow countrymen in Finland would give you a good view of how they have felt it.

jarikaija
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Re: Budget Question

Post by jarikaija » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:39 am

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:23 am

90% of all employees in the private sector earn more than 2,186 Euro (before taxes), people employed in restaurants are often in the bottom 10% who earn less.
Sooooooo far about median salary... You know declension for statistics?

Statistic, Statistic, a big lie.

:wink:

Upphew
Posts: 10632
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Budget Question

Post by Upphew » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:26 pm

jarikaija wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:39 am
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:23 am

90% of all employees in the private sector earn more than 2,186 Euro (before taxes), people employed in restaurants are often in the bottom 10% who earn less.
Sooooooo far about median salary... You know declension for statistics?

Statistic, Statistic, a big lie.

:wink:
One more good reason to learn maths.
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Upphew
Posts: 10632
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Budget Question

Post by Upphew » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:33 pm

Dunno where III is coming from. But I spotted an article from Kauppalehti where Finnish coder is moving back from Silicon valley as the 200k (€) a year isn't enough there. He earned 75k before the move there.
https://www.kauppalehti.fi/uutiset/200- ... X0f-yfW-rs
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Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.


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