Finnish citizen who lives abroad - residence permit for spouse?

[muadinka]

I'm a Finnish citizen who lives in another non-EU country.

I have an apartment in Finland and I want to move there for awhile with my pregnant girlfriend (we're not married).

According to the official website, it seems that she will be eligble for a residence permit IF I (the Finish citizen) am "going to move to Finland."

The question is -- what does "going to move" mean? If I want to move for 3 months, does it count?

Thanks

[FinlandGirl]

I have an apartment in Finland and I want to move there for awhile with my pregnant girlfriend (we're not married).

She is your spouse only if you have lived together for 2 years.

I'm a Finnish citizen who lives in another non-EU country.

Have you ever lived together in an EU country?

The question is -- what does "going to move" mean? If I want to move for 3 months, does it count?

You are moving to Finland when you move your residence from the other country to Finland.
There is no minimum stay before you are allowed to move away again.
Taxation and social security can be a hassle when residing in several countries during a year, and Vero will consider you a resident for the following three years.

According to the official website, it seems that she will be eligble for a residence permit IF I (the Finish citizen) am "going to move to Finland."

If she needs a visa for entering Schengen, she needs that in any case for entering unless she wants to wait for a decision on the residence permit abroad.
The 90 days she is allowed to stay with a visa or visa-free cover your 3 months.
If flying by plane, check airline rules until which week of pregnancy she is allowed to fly back home.

Estimated processing time for a residence permit is 9 months.

[jaatelo]

I'm a Finnish citizen who lives in another non-EU country.
I have an apartment in Finland and I want to move there for awhile with my pregnant girlfriend (we're not married).

Get married in sweden and residence permits will become easier for the mother of your child. Move to another country besides Finland, for example, Sweden will grant you a permit more easily than Finland.

[NukkuMatti]

According to my knowledge (which is known to be incomplete ) : and the information in other posts from "Betelgeuse'"

Your intended move to Finland for 3 months will NOT bee seen as permanent so the answer on your question is NO.
Also your girlfriend will, with a tourist visa, not be covered by Kela / social security and public health system, this means that any medical needs / visits regarding the pregnancy in those 3 months will have to be paid by yourself / private insurance.

Once the child is born and you report/acknowledge yourself as being the Father of the child, the child gets the Finnish citizenship by birth. Depending on the situation, you might need to prove you are the father by a DNA test (in case it is disputed or there is suspicion of ill intent, for example).
From that moment the mother is able to get a residence permit based on Family ties as long as the child lives permanently in Finland.
If the child moves to another country (within 5 years?? ...not sure), the mother needs to move too (why wouldn't she duh...) because her residence permit is no longer valid hence the grounds of family ties are no longer there. (if you are not living here).

I guess it all depends on the purpose of your 3 months stay and the reason for getting your pregnant girlfriend here and why you would want a residence permit for her if you are only staying here for 3 months. I guess immigration will not be "happy" with you coming here for only 3 months, to leave your pregnant wife alone in Finland after that (if that is your goal), regardless of the morality / ethics of that...

You can imagine that Finland does not want Finnish citizens in another country to move pregnant women to Finland from who they say they are the father, and get them permanent residence and then break up and leave her alone, only to get the next pregnant girl to Finland the same way. This would be a nice loophole in the immigration laws...This attempt might even trigger an investigation for human trafficking.

Despite the risks of a criminal investigation, you could try to play the system and keep quiet about wanting to leave after 3 months: So you officially move back to Finland to your apartment permanently. You prove you have been together for 2 years and get her a residence permit based on an intimate relationship. After 3 months you go for a "holiday" back to the other country and your pregnant "girlfriend" will stay in your apartment, managing your Finnish mail and administration. You come back by the time the baby is born and claim to be the father, granting the baby Finnish citizenship, after this your "girlfriend" changes the grounds of her residence permit to Family ties and brakes up with you and move to her own by the state provided apartment and you officially move out of Finland again back to the other country you live in.

As said above, this will give you an administrative nightmare to deal with, but it is do-able (besides the risk of a criminal investigation) .
If this is the case, I hope for you that you used a VPN / TOR and a fake/disposable email address to post this question on this website/forum, remember big brother is watching you!! so does Migri and Supo with this forum.. make no mistake about that!

Now wait for the regular corrections on this post by FinlandGirl who is always very eager to point out any mistakes anyone makes and the moral / ethical comments on anything that is deemed not in line with the Finnish ones..

Disclaimer: I do not endorse, nor encourage, nor suggest breaking any (Finnish) law, this post is only a result of my boring Sunday afternoon and might be informative or entertaining

Stay safe! use a mask! get a vaccine! keep your distance!
Peace to you all!

[betelgeuse]

You can imagine that Finland does not want Finnish citizens in another country to move pregnant women to Finland from who they say they are the father, and get them permanent residence and then break up and leave her alone, only to get the next pregnant girl to Finland the same way. This would be a nice loophole in the immigration laws...This attempt might even trigger an investigation for human trafficking.

The Finnish system does not work this way.

The crime of human trafficking requires: ” for purposes of sexual abuse referred to in Chapter 20, section 9, subsection 1(1) or comparable sexual abuse, forced labour or other demeaning circumstances or removal of bodily organs or tissues”

https://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokse ... 890039.pdf

[NukkuMatti]

You can imagine that Finland does not want Finnish citizens in another country to move pregnant women to Finland from who they say they are the father, and get them permanent residence and then break up and leave her alone, only to get the next pregnant girl to Finland the same way. This would be a nice loophole in the immigration laws...This attempt might even trigger an investigation for human trafficking.

The Finnish system does not work this way.

The crime of human trafficking requires: ” for purposes of sexual abuse referred to in Chapter 20, section 9, subsection 1(1) or comparable sexual abuse, forced labour or other demeaning circumstances or removal of bodily organs or tissues”

https://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokse ... 890039.pdf

I guess that is semantics...where I come from, this is also considered as such... human smuggling so to say... would Finland have another name for that? Getting people into Finland on an illegal manner (generally for a lot of money?) would that just be smuggling? I mean isn't smuggling humans into another country "trafficking" therefore called "human trafficking" ? or is it just here in Finland the different name tag they put on it?...

Either way the point was that it might trigger an investigation of a criminal / illegal act, whatever the official name for it is...

[betelgeuse]

You can imagine that Finland does not want Finnish citizens in another country to move pregnant women to Finland from who they say they are the father, and get them permanent residence and then break up and leave her alone, only to get the next pregnant girl to Finland the same way. This would be a nice loophole in the immigration laws...This attempt might even trigger an investigation for human trafficking.

The Finnish system does not work this way.

The crime of human trafficking requires: ” for purposes of sexual abuse referred to in Chapter 20, section 9, subsection 1(1) or comparable sexual abuse, forced labour or other demeaning circumstances or removal of bodily organs or tissues”

https://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokse ... 890039.pdf

I guess that is semantics...where I come from, this is also considered as such... human smuggling so to say... would Finland have another name for that? Getting people into Finland on an illegal manner (generally for a lot of money?) would that just be smuggling? I mean isn't smuggling humans into another country "trafficking" therefore called "human trafficking" ? or is it just here in Finland the different name tag they put on it?...

There’s arrangement of illegal immigration but it doesn’t apply here either.

Either way the point was that it might trigger an investigation of a criminal / illegal act, whatever the official name for it is...

I would bet good money against this happening.

[NukkuMatti]

Either way the point was that it might trigger an investigation of a criminal / illegal act, whatever the official name for it is...

I would bet good money against this happening.

I am not so sure if it is wise to share that thought
Basically what you're saying that this is indeed a loophole on how to get pregnant girls to Finland and get them a permanent residence permit..
Especially if the guy with the Finnish passport, does not have any known possessions to confiscate and sell, for not paying child support..

[betelgeuse]

Either way the point was that it might trigger an investigation of a criminal / illegal act, whatever the official name for it is...

I would bet good money against this happening.

I am not so sure if it is wise to share that thought
Basically what you're saying that this is indeed a loophole on how to get pregnant girls to Finland and get them a permanent residence permit..
Especially if the guy with the Finnish passport, does not have any known possessions to confiscate and sell, for not paying child support..

A permanent residence permit requires first to collect four years with A.

You consider it a loophole but I think it's a feature. The child has a right to be with both parents in a same country regardless of the situation between the parents. The child doesn't even need to have Finnish citizenship. A residence permit is available to the child due to a Finnish guardian (the father) and then by extension to the mother (family member = the child in Finland).

[NukkuMatti]

A permanent residence permit requires first to collect four years with A.

Which you will get when living with a guaranteed A permit due to family ties with the child with Finnish citizenship (unless the child moves away from Finland). I admire you eye for detail

You consider it a loophole but I think it's a feature. The child has a right to be with both parents in a same country regardless of the situation between the parents. The child doesn't even need to have Finnish citizenship. A residence permit is available to the child due to a Finnish guardian (the father) and then by extension to the mother (family member = the child in Finland).

Just being the devils advocate here :

You assume the father will (at least) remain the guardian here, which was not part of the scheme I described, in contrary...

I agree with you that it is definitely a feature for the needed, but it is at the same time a loophole that can (easily?) be misused by the ill intended.

This is not what I have grown to get used to, learning from Finnish law (like the almost air tight tax laws we discussed earlier)...

But to conclude this entertaining learning curve again : thank you for sharing your extended knowledge of Finnish law again, you make us all a bit smarter with every discussion!

At the same time, I will keep trying finding loopholes just for the fun of it

[betelgeuse]

A permanent residence permit requires first to collect four years with A.

Which you will get when living with a guaranteed A permit due to family ties with the child with Finnish citizenship (unless the child moves away from Finland). I admire you eye for detail

It’s likely but not guaranteed.

This is not what I have grown to get used to, learning from Finnish law (like the almost air tight tax laws we discussed earlier)...

Immigration is much more a field of competing priorities and rights than personal taxation.

[NukkuMatti]

A permanent residence permit requires first to collect four years with A.

Which you will get when living with a guaranteed A permit due to family ties with the child with Finnish citizenship (unless the child moves away from Finland). I admire you eye for detail

It’s likely but not guaranteed.

This is not what I have grown to get used to, learning from Finnish law (like the almost air tight tax laws we discussed earlier)...

Immigration is much more a field of competing priorities and rights than personal taxation.

Hm... it seems that there is a clear difference in Finnish laws when it is about (personal) rights and (tax) money... and I thought the Dutch or the Scottish were the cheapest ones... guess my world view gets shattered again here in Finland this country keeps amazing me (and that is apparently not all positive).

But to conclude this tread, your point is duly noted.. thanks again for the elaboration, it made everyone (or at least me) wiser again!