Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

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Boo
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:31 pm

Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by Boo » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:27 pm

Hello!

Hope I am in the right place of the forum, basically the situation that I got penalty fare for being only 10 seconds on a tram. Here is how:

I get on a tram at Rautotientori saying good bye to a friend which left on a stop, was on the tram for about few seconds, and then realized that forgot my jacket with friend and turned back to take it from her who was still was on the stop at the moment, II turn back to and around that straight after me HSL inspector were coming after, and the one in the front started to push me just because I wanted to pass by her. She pushed me 3 times with some kind of provoking or I don't know what was is a smile of her face, what is ridiculous, that was the first time in my life when I saw how someone smiling using violence and when we got on the middle after all these pushes of the tram then she switched on English and asked my ticked, which I obviously didn't have time to buy since I was about 10-15 seconds on the tram to this moment, after what inspector said to me that she is about to fine me, even if I said here before that if this is so important at the moment then I can buy a ticket right here by applying my travel card to a one of those ticket machines inside trams, but inspector Ida (name from penalty fare) said that she anyway will make penalty fair because I had to buy the ticket before I came into the train, what is just ridiculous and basically stunned me. I just don't know what to do with this unfairness, she applied violence without any reason, prescribed me a penalty fair without a reason, and when I complaint about this to the head of their unit Janne Solala his rejection answer was very formal statement something like "you didn't have a ticket so you were fined". So basically this is how I was fined for being 10-15 seconds on a tram, pushed few times with no reason and got very formal rejection complaint answer from Janne Solala. They offer me to go to the court but as asylum seeker I obviously don't have this option. Maybe someone has any ideas?



Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

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hotplay
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:09 pm

Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by hotplay » Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:12 pm

Boo wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:27 pm
Hello!

Hope I am in the right place of the forum, basically the situation that I got penalty fare for being only 10 seconds on a tram. Here is how:

I get on a tram at Rautotientori saying good bye to a friend which left on a stop, was on the tram for about few seconds, and then realized that forgot my jacket with friend and turned back to take it from her who was still was on the stop at the moment, II turn back to and around that straight after me HSL inspector were coming after, and the one in the front started to push me just because I wanted to pass by her. She pushed me 3 times with some kind of provoking or I don't know what was is a smile of her face, what is ridiculous, that was the first time in my life when I saw how someone smiling using violence and when we got on the middle after all these pushes of the tram then she switched on English and asked my ticked, which I obviously didn't have time to buy since I was about 10-15 seconds on the tram to this moment, after what inspector said to me that she is about to fine me, even if I said here before that if this is so important at the moment then I can buy a ticket right here by applying my travel card to a one of those ticket machines inside trams, but inspector Ida (name from penalty fare) said that she anyway will make penalty fair because I had to buy the ticket before I came into the train, what is just ridiculous and basically stunned me. I just don't know what to do with this unfairness, she applied violence without any reason, prescribed me a penalty fair without a reason, and when I complaint about this to the head of their unit Janne Solala his rejection answer was very formal statement something like "you didn't have a ticket so you were fined". So basically this is how I was fined for being 10-15 seconds on a tram, pushed few times with no reason and got very formal rejection complaint answer from Janne Solala. They offer me to go to the court but as asylum seeker I obviously don't have this option. Maybe someone has any ideas?
You were suppose to have bought it BEFORE entering the tram/bus/subway.it's the law, your story is personal ... but it has not affect on the law.

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rinso
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by rinso » Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:37 pm

10 seconds or 10 stops. The inspector couldn't tell. Therefore in case of doubt; the law favors the HSL.
Pay the fine, you cannot win in court. You only get a conviction and a negative mark on your file.

riku2
Posts: 990
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:13 pm

Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by riku2 » Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:17 pm

just because there are no barriers at the metro stations or mandatory boarding on trams and busses through the door next to the driver doesn't excuse you from needing a ticket to be onboard the vehicle. It's an honour based system unlike in Paris, London etc.
On the metro it's not just about being on the train itself, you should already have a ticket by the time you're on the platform
Payment area: Metro platform area or ferry pier where you must have a valid ticket. At metro stations, the payment area begins at the card readers at the top of the escalators to the platforms. On the Suomenlinna ferry pier, the payment area begins at the card readers.

betelgeuse
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:25 pm

rinso wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:37 pm
10 seconds or 10 stops. The inspector couldn't tell. Therefore in case of doubt; the law favors the HSL.
Pay the fine, you cannot win in court. You only get a conviction and a negative mark on your file.
Going to court can’t result in a conviction. The matter is administrative – not criminal. Neither does it result in any kind of negative marking. Only if one doesn’t pay the fine when due can it result in entries.

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agroot
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by agroot » Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:24 am

She knew you didn't have a ticket and assumed you were leaving (returning to your friend) because you saw her coming.

Then, you still didn't buy a ticket but returned, which was very stupid (as she assumed you don't have a ticket), but anyway she decided to push you to remind that you should f*** off before she issues the fine - that's why she was smiling! I believe at that point she cannot warn you vocally as it'd be against the rules of her job.

Still, you didn't heed her warning, and she had to fine you.

End of story.


PS: it was not too late to buy the ticket in HSL app. Nobody uses the ticket machine and she'd probably assume anyone who claims to use it is just lying.

Boo
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Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:31 pm

Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by Boo » Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:04 am

Hope the justice is going to be the same fair to you guys, as you wished to other people. /thread

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network_engineer
Posts: 825
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:21 am

Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by network_engineer » Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:27 pm

I am on the side of the OP here.

The inspector should need to prove travel. I know, it would be a burden.

Not to mention the app is stupid as hell, the quality of logic and IT has gone down the gutter.

Tried to buy new tickets before the old one expired yesterday, the app would not refresh. Did not want to take a chance so had to step back, wait for the ticket to expire and then buy it.

Who should I send the fine to?

hellofelicia
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by hellofelicia » Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:50 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:27 pm
Tried to buy new tickets before the old one expired yesterday, the app would not refresh. Did not want to take a chance so had to step back, wait for the ticket to expire and then buy it.
Why would you want to do that? You're allowed to continue your journey if your ticket expires in the middle of it.

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network_engineer
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by network_engineer » Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:56 pm

hellofelicia wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:50 pm
network_engineer wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:27 pm
Tried to buy new tickets before the old one expired yesterday, the app would not refresh. Did not want to take a chance so had to step back, wait for the ticket to expire and then buy it.
Why would you want to do that? You're allowed to continue your journey if your ticket expires in the middle of it.
The answer would be "Because I don't trust these whackos...".

Journey from Station A to Station B, make a small purchase, and return to Station A. The ticket was about 7 min. from expiry. Naturally, I'd rather pay the few euros than pay any fines.

hellofelicia
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:07 pm

Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by hellofelicia » Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:01 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:56 pm
hellofelicia wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:50 pm
network_engineer wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:27 pm
Tried to buy new tickets before the old one expired yesterday, the app would not refresh. Did not want to take a chance so had to step back, wait for the ticket to expire and then buy it.
Why would you want to do that? You're allowed to continue your journey if your ticket expires in the middle of it.
The answer would be "Because I don't trust these whackos...".

Journey from Station A to Station B, make a small purchase, and return to Station A. The ticket was about 7 min. from expiry. Naturally, I'd rather pay the few euros than pay any fines.
Well, that's on you then. The rules are pretty clear on that, and there are instructions in the HSL app on what to do when your ticket expires.

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network_engineer
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by network_engineer » Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:12 pm

27 years in IT. 22 in Finland.

Anything can happen when the ticket expires! Data connection strength may weaken, app may stop responding!

Worst apps are done by... take a guess!

Many people have been caught by the officials misinterpreting the rules, sometimes wilfully misinterpreted. Children as young as 8 years old have been kicked off the bus in the middle of nowhere.

So... yes, it is on me to buy the tickets, and avoid these human asses ... sorry meant assets.

esimerkki
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by esimerkki » Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:46 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:27 pm
The inspector should need to prove travel. I know, it would be a burden.
The proof is out there, the OP existence in the vehicle (tram).

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network_engineer
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by network_engineer » Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:56 am

esimerkki wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:46 pm
The proof is out there, the OP existence in the vehicle (tram).
I did visit and pass by the maternity ward at the hospitals. No, the existence of babies isn't proof they are mine! :twisted:

Look, Finland (and some of these high-moral-pretence countries) have a problem: They assume that all tourists and newcomers are fully familiar with all the gargantuan and brobdingnagian set of rules. Yet these are the same that cry foul when countered with the same situation!!!

I am sympathetic with the OP. And this has happened in the news as well: Somewhere in the last 10 years, an 8-year old was asked to get off the bus because he lost his ticket. An 8-year old!!!

<Not in Finland>

I've encountered this before, and very fairly handled. About two decades ago. Drove up to a toll booth, tried to pay with the credit card. Was very used to doing that. The attendant said they don't take cards. Very long line behind me, and I had no cash.

The attendant just asked me to park on the side. I explained my situation, and the fact that I had just arrived to the country. Took a quick look at my license, said, "Don't worry, this happens", and let me go.

</Not in Finland>

Blind eyes until queried on breakfast costs, renting saunas as apartments, personal taxi trips etc. cause more fiscal and goodwill harm to public finances than a 2,80e ticket!!! Don't understand the grounds for defending this nonsense?

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agroot
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by agroot » Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:28 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:56 am
Blind eyes until queried on breakfast costs, renting saunas as apartments, personal taxi trips etc. cause more fiscal and goodwill harm to public finances than a 2,80e ticket!!! Don't understand the grounds for defending this nonsense?
Because there are people who abuse the trust based system.

As a newcomer I'd do as much as I can to show them we're equally trustworthy. What they do to their own politicians is none of my business (yet).


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