Hello buddies! Would love & appreciate hearing your thoughts/ advice/ objections/ critics/ warnings about this crazy idea I've contemplating. As the subject reveals, it's about
1. having no fixed housing (legal address registered = friend's house)
2. owning minimal belongings
3. "living"/ sleeping + traveling out of/ with a car instead.
Living in quotation marks because there is an option to spend daytime in 1000 places (including offices) and the car mainly for sleeping. I do some research and thinking and compile a list of pros & cons. But still would be nice to hear from others, this way I can expand my limited knowledge, imagination & blindspots. A good explanation of this lifestyle can be found here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4i1FpcGzvU.
The motivations for me are
1. Instead of paying rent every month without having the property at the end, I hopefully can pay for a second-hand electric car (EV) and own it after some years.
2. The car can take me places, but the room can't.
3. In case of unused (traveling) -> I lost money paying rent (or luckily finding someone who needs a space just that period, if I can sub rent it). While I earn money renting the car (if I can rent it out during the installment period, I think I can, light entrepreneurship or via a third-party app, or ask a friend to use it for free with at least no cost for me).
Paljon kiitoksia!
Hà
Live/sleep in a car? :) In Helsinki!! During winter!!?
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Re: Live/sleep in a car? :) In Helsinki!! During winter!!?
Ha-Nguyen wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2023 2:26 pmHello buddies! Would love & appreciate hearing your thoughts/ advice/ objections/ critics/ warnings about this crazy idea I've contemplating. As the subject reveals, it's about
1. having no fixed housing (legal address registered = friend's house)
2. owning minimal belongings
3. "living"/ sleeping + traveling out of/ with a car instead.
Living in quotation marks because there is an option to spend daytime in 1000 places (including offices) and the car mainly for sleeping. I do some research and thinking and compile a list of pros & cons. But still would be nice to hear from others, this way I can expand my limited knowledge, imagination & blindspots.
What are your calculations regarding the costs for buying/driving/heating/insurance/repairs?
Does that actually save you money?
For living you need a van with a bed, a stove and a toilet.
Where will you park the van?
Where will you empty the toilet?
Where will you take a shower?
If money is such a worry for you, I doubt an EV would be a good choice.
Do second-hand electric camper vans even exist, and if yes what do they cost?
A car that was bought second-hand and got even older afterwards is not worth much, usually a car gets scrapped when the next repair would be more expensive than the value of the car after the repair.
Re: Live/sleep in a car? :) In Helsinki!! During winter!!?
Thanks a lot for all the insights, FinlandGirl!
There are a lot of hidden/ unexpected costs. The car itself has an annual tax. And you mentioned what I dread the most "repair" I don't know anything about car (yet). It will also cost me to get the license in Finland because the last seven years in Helsinki I'm good with public transport. I'm researching to finalize my calculation. Lots of work!What are your calculations regarding the costs for buying/driving/heating/insurance/repairs? Does that actually save you money?
Since the van requires more work. I plan to start with a car - not a van. And improvise something comfy enough out of the back seat for "bed". Good sleep is important for the whole day's quality so I also don't wanna risk this. But haha I have been sleeping in comfy warm beds and still have insomnia + tiredness. So maybe the peace of mind of living the way I really want will be the more important factor. Daytime I plan to spend in the office, libraries, parks (summer), gym, cafe, etc. And yeah, I will do the toilet + shower (+ sauna) there. Parking I'm looking at different options. Renting or applying for a residential parking space (my friend's address) might do. But I see one public parking hall mentioned this in their T&C that unauthorized stay is prohibitedFor living you need a van with a bed, a stove, and a toilet.
Money is not currently a worry for me, luckily. I have a stable remote job and stable income that I can afford normal rent. My worry is if the money is well spent or not. The car I was looking at is this, installment will be ~half of the monthly standard rent. https://www.kamux.fi/cars/Volkswagen/up!/EUC-973If money is such a worry for you, I doubt an EV would be a good choice. Do second-hand electric camper vans even exist, and if yes what do they cost?
Not sure if I understand this well. But yes I'm aware of the value drop in the used cars (but might be nothing compared to new car) & it's a gamble if I will get a decent deal, or if something needs fixing every other month..A car that was bought second-hand and got even older afterward is not worth much, usually, a car gets scrapped when the next repair would be more expensive than the value of the car after the repair.
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Re: Live/sleep in a car? :) In Helsinki!! During winter!!?
You are just being stupid when you are planning to live on the back-seat of a car despite being able to afford a normal rent.Ha-Nguyen wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 5:18 pmThere are a lot of hidden/ unexpected costs. The car itself has an annual tax. And you mentioned what I dread the most "repair" I don't know anything about car (yet). It will also cost me to get the license in Finland because the last seven years in Helsinki I'm good with public transport. I'm researching to finalize my calculation. Lots of work!What are your calculations regarding the costs for buying/driving/heating/insurance/repairs? Does that actually save you money?
Since the van requires more work. I plan to start with a car - not a van. And improvise something comfy enough out of the back seat for "bed". Good sleep is important for the whole day's quality so I also don't wanna risk this. But haha I have been sleeping in comfy warm beds and still have insomnia + tiredness. So maybe the peace of mind of living the way I really want will be the more important factor. Daytime I plan to spend in the office, libraries, parks (summer), gym, cafe, etc. And yeah, I will do the toilet + shower (+ sauna) there. Parking I'm looking at different options. Renting or applying for a residential parking space (my friend's address) might do. But I see one public parking hall mentioned this in their T&C that unauthorized stay is prohibitedFor living you need a van with a bed, a stove, and a toilet.
Money is not currently a worry for me, luckily. I have a stable remote job and stable income that I can afford normal rent. My worry is if the money is well spent or not.If money is such a worry for you, I doubt an EV would be a good choice. Do second-hand electric camper vans even exist, and if yes what do they cost?
Cooking cheap food instead of wasting money in restaurants and cafes, or not living in the most expensive town in the country, these would be sane options if you want to save money.
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Re: Live/sleep in a car? :) In Helsinki!! During winter!!?
Instead of living in a car you can try to move to Riihimäki or some other small town near Helsinki. It is possible to find a flat there less than 500 euro per month. And you can buy a season-ticket for commuter train to move to Helsinki in half an hour and whenever you want to.
I don't think that car living is profitable if it will cost you more that 300 euro per month (for petrol, taxes, insurances, parking place, etc)
I don't think that car living is profitable if it will cost you more that 300 euro per month (for petrol, taxes, insurances, parking place, etc)
Re: Live/sleep in a car? :) In Helsinki!! During winter!!?
There's a min series in YLE about a couple who moved into a van with their dog for 2 or 3 years - should be still in areena, called "Van life" see https://areena.yle.fi/1-61882614 . They spent their winters elsewhere, in the south, where winters are mild, while working remotely. They had their van adapted by a mechanic, himself a enthusiast, from eastern helsinki, and knowing finns that guy is prob now booked for the foreseable future. Didn't really dig into it but there were others doing it, iirc a couple living and working from a small truck.
I am sure if you look around you'll find foruns and subs for enthusiasts, they'll tell you about their experiences, necesseties and what to expect from different vehicles. My guess is that a van or camper, which allows you to cook, work and sleep would save you money and afford you access to more places, as compared to a car with a bed, but YMMV.
I am sure if you look around you'll find foruns and subs for enthusiasts, they'll tell you about their experiences, necesseties and what to expect from different vehicles. My guess is that a van or camper, which allows you to cook, work and sleep would save you money and afford you access to more places, as compared to a car with a bed, but YMMV.
Re: Live/sleep in a car? :) In Helsinki!! During winter!!?
Go to Oodi library, use the toilets there and wash yourself there and have a nap on the comfy sofas during the day. In the night go to a subway open 24 hrs, order a sandwich and sleep there. This is what the bulgarian gipsies have been doing for many years quite succesfully, no need for a van or a flat of Schuldgefühle.
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Re: Live/sleep in a car? :) In Helsinki!! During winter!!?
checkout vantastic on youtube. They have a campervan though
Re: Live/sleep in a car? :) In Helsinki!! During winter!!?
Talking about one of the countries I lived in, (The Netherlands) I remember that it is forbidden to sleep the night in a car / caravan, van and camper, on public road and in residential areas, you will get a ticket when doing so and forced to move on immediately when ticketed.
Sleeping in a car is only allowed on a camping or designated truck / parking places outside of the city limits.
I came to wonder if similar laws / rules / regulations apply in for example the greater Helsinki area, or all city limits in Finland as well.
I would like to know too because I am considering the purchase of a camper and move around Finland visiting all old friends (from Porvoo to Tornio and a little higher..) this summer.
Sleeping in a car is only allowed on a camping or designated truck / parking places outside of the city limits.
I came to wonder if similar laws / rules / regulations apply in for example the greater Helsinki area, or all city limits in Finland as well.
I would like to know too because I am considering the purchase of a camper and move around Finland visiting all old friends (from Porvoo to Tornio and a little higher..) this summer.
If god would give us the source code, we could change the world