Citizenship by Declaration automatically passed to progeny?

[Mook]

What national service? If you're refering to the draft, they don't do that anymore for people in my situation. Too many problems with people who don't speak Finnish.

Have the closed the English speaking platoons? I understood that their based somewhere out West of Helsinki?

[Hank W.]

What prompted the question is http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263672 this thread.

Yes but that is British subjectivity, Finland has a different policy alltogether. (And comparably, who in their right mind would be wanting a Finnish citizenship anyhow). Anyways - all countries have different laws. Say any Tina, Diana or Harriet popping a baby in the USA - the kid has an automagic USC for some odd reason - For any Finnish citizen Tiina, Diana or Hanna popping a kid outside Finland, the kid will get to be a Finnish citizen so whats the difference really - except the systems are different? You used to get a German citizenship easier if you were of German descent monolingual Russian from the bend of the Volga easier than if you were a 3rd generation German-educated 'gastarbeiter' - so the logic there also was interesting.

Now the difference is, Finland can still afford to be giving citizenship out, Now compare for example with the system how you get Åland Islands residency to say how you get Bermuda residency

I'll let you guys on a secret - everyone (like you yourself) wants to go to the UK, whereas nobody in their right mind (like you) wants to come to Finland. Therefore as people at a young age are susceptible to influence, to prove "sufficient ties" to Finland what best is to lure them here to study ("free"), meet a hawt blonde & stay... I mean there is a need for workers so I think the evil plot is evident

[Hank W.]

Have the closed the English speaking platoons? I understood that their based somewhere out West of Helsinki?

They used to have them with the Swedish brigade in Dragsvik, hmmm....

http://www.mil.fi/varusmies/expatriate.pdf

Seems they disperse the English-speakers into the big garrisons.

BTW one should read the text in the brochure, you still have to show up for draft or make the petition to being exempted, there is no "I don't need to do nothing" option (unless you want to get extracurricular crap later on).

[jwesthues]

I know you can add your children on the declaration, but I once this law that allows declarations to end, I dont know if youd be able to add any other children.

Its common sense. There has to be a limit to this. It wouldnt defeat the purpose at all. Just because you have citizenship, it doesnt mean every single generation after you should have it.

Why not? US citizenship can be passed down this way (as well as by simply being born in the US). I was born a US citizen. My daughter has US citizenship (regardless of where she was born). Her children will have US citizenship, etc., etc.

As regarding "special treatment" of declared citizens. If a born Finnish citizen can pass along Finnish citizenship to his/her children, then why should not a declared citizen? It makes no sense to me that declared citizens would have any restrictions on passing along citizenship to their progeny.

Technically, dual-citizens lose their Finnish citizenship at age 22 unless they can demonstrate sufficiently close ties such as living in Finland for some years, but also simply declaring your desire to retain that citizenship (I believe that this sort of declaration will not expire, as the declaration to acquire citizenship will in 2008).

Regarding military duty. those that acquired citizenship prior to age 30 are liable to report for the draft. Although there seem to be relatively easy exemptions for Finns abroad in this scenario. According to the Finnish military's web site, soldiers are entitled to support and instruction in their native language.

[Hank W.]

And to think of it, if at age 19 you're pleading exemption from the military service due to "no ties to Finland" then at 22 you suddenly become patriotic again and claim "ties to Finland" you guess what will happen then

[Mook]

you guess what will happen then

Jep...being made to do press-ups by some 16-year-old sergeant

[Zeropaid]

" 'Young applicants often times wonder if they would have to serve in the Finnish military' attaché' (when acquiring Finnish citizenship) Kaasinen says. 'The answer is no, they do not have to.' "

http://www.finland.org/netcomm/news/Sho ... t=1&LAN=EN

There might be some forms to fill out, but thats the impression I got. I filled out my passport application and there was no mention of any military information (unlike what they have on the website).

And if citizenship is passed on so freely as jwesthues suggests wouldnt everybody have at least 3 citizenships? My great grandfather was German so by your logic, I should have German citizenship.

[Hank W.]

There might be some forms to fill out, but thats the impression I got. I filled out my passport application and there was no mention of any military information

Of course not, the brown envelopes come in a separate package

And if citizenship is passed on so freely as jwesthues suggests wouldnt everybody have at least 3 citizenships? My great grandfather was German so by your logic, I should have German citizenship.

Are you aware of what it means when different countries have different laws?

[Zeropaid]

German citizenship.

Are you aware of what it means when different countries have different laws?[/quote]

The individual was making a blanket statement that because the US allows citizenship to automatically be passed down generation after generation (which Im not entirely sure is true) that all laws should be similar. Maybe it makes some sense to pass citizenship off to one's children, but there should be a limit. Thats not what s/he is suggesting, though. Theyre saying that if one person ever manages to get citizenship in a country, that citizenship should be passed on to each generation until the end of time. (insert appropriate emoticon here)

[Mook]

Are you aware of what it means when different countries have different laws?

Finland has only allowed dual citizenship for adults for about 2 years. Previously, children with dual nationality had to choose when they reached 18. One of my friends was among the 1st to "go dual".

And yes, if countries allow it, nationality goes on forever. Just think of all the countries one could become available for national service in?

[Hank W.]

. Just think of all the countries one could become available for national service in?

Well, if you are a dual citizen of Germany and Finland, you have to choose German service, as if you choose Finnish military the Germans will strip you of German citizenship Theres a few countries that require service, some countries where you can be excused of service, and some countries they really don't care, and some countries that are somewhat strict on the issue.

[jwesthues]

Zeropaid, what you are suggesting sounds like second-class citizenship. Who on earth would opt for that? Again, a citizen is a citizen. I sure as hell would not pay 300 EURO (or whatever it was) to become a Grade B or Grade C Finnish citizen.

If a country grants citizenship to someone, than they grant all rights, priveleges and obligations that go along with that. Unless someone does not live up to their obligations along the way, then why wouldn't the citizenship go from parent to child to child to child etc.

Regarding US citizenship, the US always considers a child born to a US citizen anywhere in the world a US citizen, unless they actively do something to lose it

[Zeropaid]

Thats not what Im saying. If 100 years from now, your offspring are still residing in Finland, I see no reason why they shouldnt be Finnish citizens.

But if your great grandchildren live outside of Finland, have never lived there, and have zero ties to the country why should they still be entitled to citizenship just because you paid 300 euro a century ago? Or even if you were born in Finland it wouldnt make sense.

[DAL]

Thats not what Im saying. If 100 years from now, your offspring are still residing in Finland, I see no reason why they shouldnt be Finnish citizens.

But if your great grandchildren live outside of Finland, have never lived there, and have zero ties to the country why should they still be entitled to citizenship just because you paid 300 euro a century ago? Or even if you were born in Finland it wouldnt make sense.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I though I read somewhere that Israel did just that, you only had to show familial ties to being Jewish and that was enough. Let me know if I am wrong.

[Hank W.]

But if your great grandchildren live outside of Finland, have never lived there, and have zero ties to the country why should they still be entitled to citizenship just because you paid 300 euro a century ago?

Yes, but the Finnish citizenship law explicitly states this will not necessarilyautomagically happen. Unless there are the "ties".

Or even if you were born in Finland it wouldnt make sense.

Well, yes it does actually. Now a person born in Finland might grow homesick, or things happen, so returning may be an option - now then waiting 7 months for underage kids to get residence permits & going through hoops to get them to school etc just is a bit complicated. Now if you think of it the kids are given an option - they can become "Finnish" (come to school etc) and the government surely has this in mind - and they need not make a choice until before age 21, if they wish to do so. The Finnish citizenship law goes even to grandparents for one reason IMHO - to facilitate "return immigration".