Here we go again..another school shooting

[mrshourula]

Police said the 22-year-old had left a handwritten note explaining his hatred for the human race and that he had been planning the shooting since 2002.


From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7632586.stm

[Cloudberry]

Cloudberry wrote

I'm pretty sure my cousin works at that hospital - I didn't realise Kauhajoki was so close to Tampere

It's not really that close. It's about 250kms. I don't know why they took him there, Seinäjoki is much closer and they do surgery there. They did on me anyway, but I didn't have a bullet in my head.
My in-laws live in Kauhajoki. That's where I'm going for Christmas. Very sad and shocking thing to happen in such a small quiet place.

Yes, this must be especially shockingly traumatic for the victims & their families but also for those that live in Kauhajoki

[Jukka Aho]

Itlasanomat...and news dont go hand in hand.. mebbe sensational news that is the case here...not facts..like we know now..

It was on CNN’s story on the incident as well... attributed to the caretaker / maintenance man who ducked the bullets:

Forsberg said, "I heard several dozen rounds of shots. In other words, it was an automatic pistol. I saw some female students who were wailing and moaning, and one managed to escape out the back door."

(Note: I’m not saying there actually was any “automatic pistol”, however you want to define that. I’m just saying there were reports about such a thing, at least initially.)

[starviego]

The fire chief said a heavy caliber weapon was being fired. Doesn't sound like a .22 Also note the heavy ratio of dead to wounded, just like at Dunblane and Port Arthur. Maybe 9 shot to death, one seriously wounded in the hospital, and some minor injuries due to a panicked running from the school. That's the work of a professional. Someone with military-type training.

Yup. This was a covert op, alright. And of course the acid test will be the new laws that are already in the pipeline. The Finns will not again dare defy the New World Order!!

[otyikondo]

The fire chief said a heavy caliber weapon was being fired. Doesn't sound like a .22 Also note the heavy ratio of dead to wounded, just like at Dunblane and Port Arthur. Maybe 9 shot to death, one seriously wounded in the hospital, and some minor injuries due to a panicked running from the school. That's the work of a professional. Someone with military-type training.

Yup. This was a covert op, alright. And of course the acid test will be the new laws that are already in the pipeline. The Finns will not again dare defy the New World Order!!

It MIGHT be worth waiting for the post mortems to see how many of those who were shot by your deadly covert ops marksman actually died from carbon monoxide poisoning when the plastic surfaces of the building went up in smoke, thanks to little Matti's firebombs. If it proves Saari's Walther actually wounded several who then died of asphyxiation or were burnt to death - forensic scientists have thus far identified only ONE body from the charred remains - can we trust you will FINALLY fu ck off and play recklessly with heavy traffic somewhere?

Of course you are fortunate, for the fire chief must have rung you personally to tell you that information, as there are no instances whatsoever of "heavy caliber" or "heavy calibre" in conjunction with the word "Kauhajoki" on Google News. Was his English good?

[Andrew_S]

That's the work of a professional. Someone with military-type training.

Most male 22-year olds in Finland have already done military service, mind.

I don't know whether that's the case here.

[Karhunkoski]

Yup, I read that link earlier, thanks. But is that definitely the weapon used ("Automatic Fire" does not equal ".22 pistol", at least in my experience of firearms)

didnt see this being mentioned in the news or websites? Any links?

The news item has since been amended to read, "automatic pistol".

[Tiwaz]

Issue in Finland are not guns, but handguns. And far too lenient policy by police.

Law states that you must be either hunter (with test passed and for some guns IIRC there are other limitations like no rifles for those not member of hunting club) or member of shooting club to obtain any weapon permit. (some exceptions on profession may apply in some senses. police do not need those, but they are kind of members of shooting club by profession)

This guy apparently did not belong to shooting club, but was given access to gun. Radical re-evaluation of shooting club memberships and permits should be issued.

Hunters are not problem here, while weapons used in it are far more powerful. (smallest rifles used in general large game hunt being 7.62x52)

Perhaps these loonies do not have the patience to learn their way through test. And since large rifles and shotguns are problematic to hide they are hardly tool of choice for such activity.


Hunting in other hand is necessity in Finland.


So while there is reason to get tighter gun restrictions, gun banning is flat out stupid.

[catfish78]

This happens every time a very tragic event like this happens. Everyone jumps on the guns, be it automatic or semi or bolt action. Be it hand guns or rifles. Here is my view, Guns are everywhere at this point. There is no practical way to collect them. No way that illegal owners will just hand them over to the authorities. Tighter gun control is an option that everyone brings up and in some cases is a great idea. However, the reason we talk about these things is because someone committed a crime. Which means they broke the law. Law breakers are not going to worry about obtaining a license for a firearm. They are just going to go out and get one. Tighter gun control only effects law abiding citizens. Criminals still have the same access to guns that they always had. As the old adage goes "If guns were outlawed, then only outlaws would have guns".
The police seemed to be on the right track when the visited the gunman do to his posted video. But what kind of training do they have to assess his mental well being? I know a many police officers. Most of which IMHO would act in the same manner and see he was just a kid goofing off. They are not trained psychologist. That is where the emphasis of refining the system needs to be directed. Fix what you can. Not enact legislation that doest have a snowballs chance in hell of actually effecting the problem.

My prayers go out to those effected by this horrible incident.

[Tiwaz]

Considering this shooting took place with gun to which he had permit, couple thoughts come to my mind...

First, mandatory psychological evaluation for those who go to the military (I know, costs a bundle but that way you can catch number of possible problems when they go to service and it helps prevent problems like one in the past with unstable guy in army snapping).

Then, having such evaluation made mandatory for obtaining permit for gun.
Those who have gone through the military service, have the paper automatically. Others have to obtain it at their own expense.

It won't prevent them from going nuts at later date, but at least ones who already had unstable psyche could be sorted out.

It would also hopefully reduce a bit amount of guns in public. Remember that criminals do not get their guns from evil stepsister of good fairy godmother, some of them are stolen in burglaries.

[sinikettu]

Yup, I read that link earlier, thanks. But is that definitely the weapon used ("Automatic Fire" does not equal ".22 pistol", at least in my experience of firearms)

didnt see this being mentioned in the news or websites? Any links?

The news item has since been amended to read, "automatic pistol".

This is Matti's gun..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_PPK
I saw one of the early web/blogs of his (now removed) and it was a photo captioned.
"me and my PP" yes in English.
The PP's cartridge has two options one of which is.0.22LR.
It is classified as "semi automatic". But it can empty, at a target it*s magazine (8 rounds) in about 7 seconds.

edited to correct typos

[Pursuivant]

and if you want to do target shooting, a Walther is about as useful as throwing darts - they should issue permits to single action pistols without a clip...

[SteveS]

Very tragic and devastating event for those families involved..

Tiwaz, it breaks my heart but I agree with everything you say. We have to restrict private individual access to handguns. There are too many guns in too many people's hands. I wouldn't give my car keys to a 22 year old but he can freely get a gun.

I know and understand that hunting is a sport and is also necessary in these kind of countries, but why oh why can't the guns be kept in the hunting clubs, securely locked away? Why the ownership has to be with the individual and not with the clubs? I was in the Territorial Army for 5 years in the UK and when we needed a gun we signed it out, used it and then returned it before going home..

If you're not shooting moose or targets at home, why do you need the gun at home?? Keep it locked away in the club. If young people wish to get access to a gun then they need to join a club and use it under supervision..

[kay30]

But even if you did have psychological testing, wouldn't most people (barring the exceptionally mentally ill) figure out what the Army (or whomever) wanted to hear and answer as such? I mean, if he could hide it well enough from the police the day before he snapped, I doubt that he would fill out the questionnaire (or whatever) honestly. And from what I understand, he had been planning it since 2002! 6+ years and no one noticed/did a thing. And that is the really scary thing.

And while I don't think the web is to blame, it certainly puts people who are unstable to begin with in a more frightening spot. Meaning 1) they have access to all kinds of people/materials instantly that would take them far, far longer to find on their own 2) it provides them a platform for instant "fame" 3) it keeps them out of society and makes the computer their primary contact. Not saying this is the rule for everyone, but it certainly doesn't help things.

[rinso]

The head of the police investigation, Jari Neulaniemi, said: "In the note he said he hated mankind and the human race. And that he had been planning this since 2002."

For someone so determinant, no amount of regulations will stop him.
Limiting the access to guns might prevent a shooting from a depressed person (if he gets help in time), but not this kind of person.