Applying for Citizenship 2024

[Aasinkinttu]

It's one thing to be slow in doing important due diligence. But things like this really just highlight what many have said about their competence. This could have been communicated the same day they disabled. Back in.. first week of May?

[karhu86]

They know that no personal data is obtained from checking the place in queue, they just didn't want the public to get an insight about how migri works (which is a joke). The data that have been published on this forum shows the randomness of migri, and why people have been waiting for years for no specific reason. I guess when Mr. Kamu is back, checking the place in queue will be linked to a code sent to your email/phone

[jonathan_09]

Overall Migri's services slow down to a painful halt. I have sent three emails for different queries, as I have a PR application IN PROCESS along with a citizenship application. But no response. When I try to call, I am sent to a waiting queue for so long, I ended up having to cut the call.

There should not be any backlog in the processing of applications, I think the problem coming from a group of people, who has been applied without fulfilling citizenship requirements. I have noticed a few facebook groups encouraging people to apply, even applicant's residence time in Finland is not sufficient to the requirement.
Migri should reject these applications at first place. "Suomessa jono on pyhä" - but now people are just cutting the line - and it is not fair for people who wait for over 1.5 years and so on.

Any application which is submitted without fulfilling the general requirements including the language requirements, or the residence time requirement is usually not given any diary number and automatically rejected except if the applicant has a strong ground for an exception and applies for it while filling the form.

I don’t think that applications without fulfilling the general requirements are the reason for this backlog and delay in processing as they are even very few.

The main two reasons are:
1- people who came as refugees during 2015-2016 refugee crisis has started to apply for the citizenship since 2022. This has caused a huge surge in applications. Same situation in Sweden and many European countries. In Sweden these years. It’s very rare when someone gets a citizenship decision in less than 2 years
2- since they have announced the 8 years rule and citizenship test requirements. this encouraged many people to apply before these reforms goes into effect. There are many people who have been living here for many years and have language requirements but haven’t applied for the citizenship before and were living on the basis of PR. And everyone knows that citizenship requirements are gonna tightened as a whole and not only the residence time

Of course Migri has a very limited resources to handle this surge. Which has caused this backlog and longer processing times. And migri at first place don’t consider citizenship applications as priority. First time residence permits are the main priority for migri

[xfromy]

They know that no personal data is obtained from checking the place in queue, they just didn't want the public to get an insight about how migri works (which is a joke). The data that have been published on this forum shows the randomness of migri, and why people have been waiting for years for no specific reason. I guess when Mr. Kamu is back, checking the place in queue will be linked to a code sent to your email/phone

Not only this, they have lied saying that place in queue is not working in Kamu due to technical issue and now that have agreed that they have intentionally disabled the feature.

[quillcentaur]

They know that no personal data is obtained from checking the place in queue, they just didn't want the public to get an insight about how migri works (which is a joke). The data that have been published on this forum shows the randomness of migri, and why people have been waiting for years for no specific reason. I guess when Mr. Kamu is back, checking the place in queue will be linked to a code sent to your email/phone

Not only this, they have lied saying that place in queue is not working in Kamu due to technical issue and now that have agreed that they have intentionally disabled the feature.

Bet migri would say that the "technical issue" they mentioned was due to the "misuse" of the website. Which could be true or not true. Just seems like they don't want people to get a hint of what's going on in the processing. If they don't want other people to get the info, they should be the one providing us the charts etc.

[betelgeuse]

Overall Migri's services slow down to a painful halt. I have sent three emails for different queries, as I have a PR application IN PROCESS along with a citizenship application. But no response. When I try to call, I am sent to a waiting queue for so long, I ended up having to cut the call.

There should not be any backlog in the processing of applications, I think the problem coming from a group of people, who has been applied without fulfilling citizenship requirements. I have noticed a few facebook groups encouraging people to apply, even applicant's residence time in Finland is not sufficient to the requirement.
Migri should reject these applications at first place. "Suomessa jono on pyhä" - but now people are just cutting the line - and it is not fair for people who wait for over 1.5 years and so on.

Any application which is submitted without fulfilling the general requirements including the language requirements, or the residence time requirement is usually not given any diary number and automatically rejected except if the applicant has a strong ground for an exception and applies for it while filling the form.

This would be illegal. They are required to give a number to any application.

"Tiedonhallintayksikön on ylläpidettävä viranomaisen käsittelyssä olevista ja olleista asioista asiarekisteriä, johon rekisteröidään asiaa, asiankäsittelyä ja asiakirjoja koskevat tiedot. Viranomaisen on rekisteröitävä viipymättä sille saapunut tai sen laatima asiakirja asiarekisteriin. Sen lisäksi, mitä 26 §:ssä säädetään, asiakirjan rekisteröinnistä on käytävä ilmi asiakirjan saapumisajankohta."

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 0906#L6P25

They also are not automatically rejecting any applications. Only positive decisions can be given by automation.

[jonathan_09]

There should not be any backlog in the processing of applications, I think the problem coming from a group of people, who has been applied without fulfilling citizenship requirements. I have noticed a few facebook groups encouraging people to apply, even applicant's residence time in Finland is not sufficient to the requirement.
Migri should reject these applications at first place. "Suomessa jono on pyhä" - but now people are just cutting the line - and it is not fair for people who wait for over 1.5 years and so on.

Any application which is submitted without fulfilling the general requirements including the language requirements, or the residence time requirement is usually not given any diary number and automatically rejected except if the applicant has a strong ground for an exception and applies for it while filling the form.

This would be illegal. They are required to give a number to any application.

"Tiedonhallintayksikön on ylläpidettävä viranomaisen käsittelyssä olevista ja olleista asioista asiarekisteriä, johon rekisteröidään asiaa, asiankäsittelyä ja asiakirjoja koskevat tiedot. Viranomaisen on rekisteröitävä viipymättä sille saapunut tai sen laatima asiakirja asiarekisteriin. Sen lisäksi, mitä 26 §:ssä säädetään, asiakirjan rekisteröinnistä on käytävä ilmi asiakirjan saapumisajankohta."

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 0906#L6P25

They also are not automatically rejecting any applications. Only positive decisions can be given by automation.

By automatically I mean that such as applications won’t even proceed to the next stage and they would be rejected as soon as they are registered from the officer who handle these applications initially.
There have been plenty of cases where many applicants applied without language requirements but the officer rejected them during the Service point visit. And I know one of these cases. The officer told him to either give a strong ground for an exception of language requirements or the application would be rejected. He failed to do so. Then his application has been rejected just one day later.

For the residence time requirement. I guess the application would be initially approved if the applicant applies before maximum 3 months of completing the residence time requirement.

[MAR1]

Hi,
I received today the monthly automatic message, I noticed that the text is a bit different as shown below,

"Your application is waiting to be processed - supplement the application
Dear customer,

Your application is waiting to be processed. We will inform you when the processing begins.

While you are waiting, please update your application with the following information:

Travels outside Finland

Inform us of whether you have travelled outside Finland after submitting your application. If you have, we need to know the following:

To what country did you travel?
What was the reason for the trip?
When did you leave Finland and when did you return to Finland?
Sources of income

Send us documents as proof of your current income source.

If you have changed jobs, send us your new employment contract.
You do not need to send proof of your income if:

There have not been any changes in your employment relationships after you submitted your application;
You are receiving benefits from Kela; or
You are receiving money from a Finnish pension or health insurance fund."

does all new reminders are received like that?, Am just wondering if the change in the text means that my queue is so near to be checked, or it is just they changed the default message for all.

[quillcentaur]

Hi,
I received today the monthly automatic message, I noticed that the text is a bit different as shown below,

"Your application is waiting to be processed - supplement the application
Dear customer,

Your application is waiting to be processed. We will inform you when the processing begins.

While you are waiting, please update your application with the following information:

Travels outside Finland

Inform us of whether you have travelled outside Finland after submitting your application. If you have, we need to know the following:

To what country did you travel?
What was the reason for the trip?
When did you leave Finland and when did you return to Finland?
Sources of income

Send us documents as proof of your current income source.

If you have changed jobs, send us your new employment contract.
You do not need to send proof of your income if:

There have not been any changes in your employment relationships after you submitted your application;
You are receiving benefits from Kela; or
You are receiving money from a Finnish pension or health insurance fund."

does all new reminders are received like that?, Am just wondering if the change in the text means that my queue is so near to be checked, or it is just they changed the default message for all.

It’s the automatic email 6 months from application date.

[mamutti]

By the way, I am going to send another citizenship application, so there can be possibility of getting it through automatic decisions. As in my case Migri told to Oileuskansleri about my travels that should be paid attention to, so everything else should be fine. After waiting for more than 21 months, my travels in 2016, 2017, 2018 and partly in 2019 don’t matter anymore, as 4-years time has shifted and I haven’t traveled anymore that much after the end of 2019.

Migri also told that it is actually possible to create as many applications as humanly possible, you just need to pay another fee. But I don’t want to wait anymore, so I would rather take a chance and hope for the automatic processing for now

[betelgeuse]

By automatically I mean that such as applications won’t even proceed to the next stage and they would be rejected as soon as they are registered from the officer who handle these applications initially.
There have been plenty of cases where many applicants applied without language requirements but the officer rejected them during the Service point visit. And I know one of these cases. The officer told him to either give a strong ground for an exception of language requirements or the application would be rejected. He failed to do so. Then his application has been rejected just one day later.

By law they are only allowed to recommend not applying at the point of service but it's plausible their language choices leave room to improve. It's allowed that they then issue a negative decision after the visit but it needs to be in writing.

[edxteam]

Any application which is submitted without fulfilling the general requirements including the language requirements, or the residence time requirement is usually not given any diary number and automatically rejected except if the applicant has a strong ground for an exception and applies for it while filling the form.

This would be illegal. They are required to give a number to any application.

"Tiedonhallintayksikön on ylläpidettävä viranomaisen käsittelyssä olevista ja olleista asioista asiarekisteriä, johon rekisteröidään asiaa, asiankäsittelyä ja asiakirjoja koskevat tiedot. Viranomaisen on rekisteröitävä viipymättä sille saapunut tai sen laatima asiakirja asiarekisteriin. Sen lisäksi, mitä 26 §:ssä säädetään, asiakirjan rekisteröinnistä on käytävä ilmi asiakirjan saapumisajankohta."

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 0906#L6P25

They also are not automatically rejecting any applications. Only positive decisions can be given by automation.

By automatically I mean that such as applications won’t even proceed to the next stage and they would be rejected as soon as they are registered from the officer who handle these applications initially.
There have been plenty of cases where many applicants applied without language requirements but the officer rejected them during the Service point visit. And I know one of these cases. The officer told him to either give a strong ground for an exception of language requirements or the application would be rejected. He failed to do so. Then his application has been rejected just one day later.

For the residence time requirement. I guess the application would be initially approved if the applicant applies before maximum 3 months of completing the residence time requirement.

Yeah i think by any means it is not good to violate the requirements of the application. If we rollback to page 58 here, there was a guy applying 6 months before the fulfilled residence time. And surprisingly he got a positive decision in a period of 6 months 1 week compared to others, who have fulfilled the requirements and followed the laws - and still pending over 1 year. He excused for that by a reason that Migri didnt tell that residence time should be A or B visa, just imagine this will make a new premise for other people trying to violate the requirements.
I wouldnt speak it up, if this wasnt the only case, but there are many same cases violating the requirement and getting the decision earlier than other people, who follows tightly to the law. Now when the new law will be soon published, i believe many people will continue violate this.

[Rankin]

The place in queue feature in Kamu has been disabled because the Finnish Immigration Service suspects that it has been used in an unintended way.

Kamu’s queue feature is intended for customers and employers so that they can check the status of their own or their employee’s applications in the processing queue.

However, Kamu has recently been used to systematically inquire and track the queue positions of a large number of random applications.

It has been possible to ask for a place in the queue with a diary number. The diary number does not contain personal data on the customers of the Finnish Immigration Service so customers' personal data has not been compromised.

Problems with the place in queue feature in the Kamu system do not affect the processing of applications. We will inform you immediately when we are able to provide a replacement tool for the place in queue feature.

Read more from our customer bulletins: migri.fi/en/-/problems-with-the-kamu-chatbot-place-in-queue-feature-looking-for-solution

They mention that they've contact the 'authorities' to look into the people who were doing the data scraping, maybe they assumed it was some Russian spy, but then I remembered there 'was' a person on this forum who would post charts on weekly/monthly intervals with stats on migri processing, their name was 'just_passing_by' I also note that all their posts have been scrubbed from the site. So, putting two and two together, I guess we can all thank this person for being the cause of Kamu's ability to tell us our queue position.

[riku2]

I also note that all their posts have been scrubbed from the site

However it's not possible to edit other people's posts which quoted the charts and data that were posted (eg page 6 of this thread)

[fingol]

They know that no personal data is obtained from checking the place in queue, they just didn't want the public to get an insight about how migri works (which is a joke). The data that have been published on this forum shows the randomness of migri, and why people have been waiting for years for no specific reason. I guess when Mr. Kamu is back, checking the place in queue will be linked to a code sent to your email/phone

Yeah I also have the same feeling that they were not happy to reveal their joke work logic.