Dreaming about Finland...

[soda]

lso my gf's parents are from Hki and the number of sentences of English they have spoken to me in 5 years can be counted on the fingers of one hand... possibly due to shyness?

Absoluely...same here.

Many of my wifes family can speak English quite well - but have never said more than "Hi" to me.

That said, many have never said a whole lot more in Finnish either!

[masao]

Well, I used to play baseball in Helsinki in 1970s with other Japanese kids. There were also some American boys, too. We had an American professor, J.C., who used to come along and tried to coach us. Anyway, he told us he had been asked a lot of times what kind of country Finland was by other foreigners. He said that whenever he was asked that question, he would reply, "take a desk globe and find out where Finland is located. That should tell you everything you need to know about Finland".

The desk globe also gives you a different perspective than the one you usually have.

Though some of us kids knew the baseball rules better than him, that words by J.C. is still full of wisdom and a fantastic one.

Normall people dream of California. You gotta be the darkest black sheep to dream of Finland.

t, masao

[Susan]

I like what JC said about the desk globe. I would like to have a desk globe right now ... It's true, when you see things from a different point of view it gives you a different perspective... what kind od country is Finland seeing by the foreigners living there? Why do people choose to move to Finland and no somewhere else? "...everything you need to know about Finland" .... what is that? Does that mean that people choosing Finland are running away from the rest of the world?

When I see what happenes is other countries, I wonder what happens in Finland...after the tornados, huracanes and other stuff in the US, the last incidents in London and now Paris, to name some, wouldn't you like to be as far as possible of all that? I do. I want to be as far as possible from everywhere. In a quiet, peaceful and beautiful place. That's what I want.

You said>>>
"Normall people dream of California. You gotta be the darkest black sheep to dream of Finland."

What is "normal"? That's a complete different topic, as what is normal for you is probably not normal for me and so on...What is "normal" only depends on you.
It's true that most people dream of California. It's not common to find someone dreaming about Finland... But here I am, the darkest black sheep who dreams about Finland. And as I said before: you have to follow your dream... =)

[herz]

I want to be as far as possible from everywhere. In a quiet, peaceful and beautiful place. That's what I want.

It's true that most people dream of California. It's not common to find someone dreaming about Finland... But here I am, the darkest black sheep who dreams about Finland. And as I said before: you have to follow your dream... =)

I hope you can fulfill your dream one day, Susan. Your dream is a good one; Finland with its top-class quality of life is indeed a dream come true for many people, indigenous and foreigners alike. Ignore the numerous negative posts on this forum.

Recently I discussed with an Englishwoman who had moved to Finland because she had fallen madly in love with a Finnish "Viking". It was the best thing that had ever happened to her, she claimed. She could not stop making comparisons between her life in Britain and Finland. The words that kept coming out of her mouth time and again: "I can't believe you are dissing your own country. I have lived in Britain and several European countries. Finland is by far the best best place to live". I have no reason not to believe her; my experiences are similar.

Do not give up your dream.

[toukokuu]

Dear Masao,

I would like you to clarify the following statement:

"We had an American professor, J.C., who used to come along and tried to coach us. Anyway, he told us he had been asked a lot of times what kind of country Finland was by other foreigners. He said that whenever he was asked that question, he would reply, "take a desk globe and find out where Finland is located. That should tell you everything you need to know about Finland".

Even though I know what it means, I would like you with your own words explain this issue. And would you expect that kind of comment from a professor? From some uneducated maybe, but not from a highly educated person.

I am a Finn who is originally from countryside but lived in Helsinki and in another western Finnish city several years, as well as in 2 other countries.After living outside Finland I appreciate Finland more and more. Before I was sad because of I found people in Helsinki little cool, but now I have a different perspective into that, as well. You just have visit some other capitals and that's it.

I think that our country's location is good.A country between east and west, and a lot of sea around. Also, good to have Lapland in the north. A lot of variation within one and same country.

However, some people in this Forum and life in generally, seem to be utopians or fantasists. They try to find a paradise on the earth, when there is not a one. They dream of Finland....In Finland some things are really good and some are not. Some things are getting worse, like the gap between rich and poor, and the consequences of the alcohol policy. I also find that especially Finnish men sometimes behave really poorly, offending others.

But being a some kind of realist, if I would have kids, it would be Finland for me to stay. Definitely. Also after retiring!

[baris]

Dear toukokuu,

Just like you had misconceptions about Turkish men, people might have misleading thoughts about Finland. It takes time to correct these and holding a professorship in one area doesn't necessarily make a person knowledgeable in any field.

Also, good to have Lapland in the north.

Certainly, though Germans burned it a bit, it is still a must to have.

Cheers.

[toukokuu]

Dear Baris,

I didn't actually have misconceptions about Turkishmen but experiences based on real life and other people's conceptions. Maybe the "bad guys" mostly come to Finland. But recently I have had new conceptions about Turkishmen. You add to that picture.

Also, in Greek islands or in Spain people have conceptions about Finnish girls and you guess what they are. These conceptions are based on real life, also....so, when they will travel to Finland, they will get a broader conception.

About Lapland: what a cynical response from you,

Is it late there in Helsinki? I mean, I wrote from another country and considering the time difference,,,oh. 2.00 am?

cheers,toukokuu

[baris]

Dear toukokuu,

Thanks for your comments.

You gave me just one example of your experiences you faced in PM and it sounded to me like a stupid joke, nothing to take that serious. I would be pleased of course to hear about your experiences more if you have more than _the_ case you told to me, which I didn't find reasonable to end up with conclusions about a nation composed of around 70 million people and for sure many people in Turkey has some conceptions and experiences about Finnish girls but I try not to stick to the prejudices but use my brain to figure out what individuals really are. I wonder sometimes if there is a rule written somewhere allowing people to generalize but not allowing to be generalized.

And yeah, it is quite late here, around 2:15 am. Seems like I will have troubles waking up for work tomorrow .

BTW, it is nice that you are trying to help people here even though you yourself stay abroad.

[Susan]

Thanks Herz.

It's mainly a matter of finding a place where things are the way you like. Where people are similar in some way to the way you are. Where you can identify yourself and where you like simple things like stopping when you see red traffic lights and where people don't have a bad attitude when you go to a shop and ask for something among many other more relevant stuff.

If Finland is the less corrupted country in the world, how on earth I can't like it? If Finland has a high level education, if it is said that Finns are honest and speak their minds, how is it possible not to like that? I do.

There are good and bad things everywhere in the world. I try to find the good things that I like, and what is good for me it's maybe not good for someone else... the same with the bad things. I don't mind if Finland has a short summer. I don't enjoy very hot weather for a long period of time anyway. For other people, a short summer is a very bad thing...

I want to be as far as possible from everywhere. In a quiet, peaceful and beautiful place. That's what I want.

It's true that most people dream of California. It's not common to find someone dreaming about Finland... But here I am, the darkest black sheep who dreams about Finland. And as I said before: you have to follow your dream... =)

I hope you can fulfill your dream one day, Susan. Your dream is a good one; Finland with its top-class quality of life is indeed a dream come true for many people, indigenous and foreigners alike. Ignore the numerous negative posts on this forum.

Recently I discussed with an Englishwoman who had moved to Finland because she had fallen madly in love with a Finnish "Viking". It was the best thing that had ever happened to her, she claimed. She could not stop making comparisons between her life in Britain and Finland. The words that kept coming out of her mouth time and again: "I can't believe you are dissing your own country. I have lived in Britain and several European countries. Finland is by far the best best place to live". I have no reason not to believe her; my experiences are similar.

Do not give up your dream.

[Hank W.]

If Finland is the less corrupted country in the world, how on earth I can't like it? If Finland has a high level education, if it is said that Finns are honest and speak their minds, how is it possible not to like that?

Well,

The "least corrupt" is measured from the preconceptions of people. of course we don't have small-scale corruption like you can pay a little extra for your application to get on the top of the pile (oops, actually one case last year). But the "corruption" on the big scale and top levels... hrm... or would it be "following ones own interests" is somewhat... hrm... evident at times. But its all so very legal.

The high level of education - debatable. Lets say we have a very comprehensive and solid education system, its on the Gauss scale. The "good schools" are not that outstanding if compared to some real top ones in teh world, but pretty good. And the "bad schools" are good if compared to "bad schools" somewhere else.

And speaking your mind is considered rude in some cultures so not everyone likes it - especially at first.

So as you see, its always two sides to a coin. It is not I wouldn't agree with you, but it is not so black and white - a lot of grey area in between...

[masao]

Dear Masao,

I would like you to clarify the following statement:

"We had an American professor, J.C., who used to come along and tried to coach us. Anyway, he told us he had been asked a lot of times what kind of country Finland was by other foreigners. He said that whenever he was asked that question, he would reply, "take a desk globe and find out where Finland is located. That should tell you everything you need to know about Finland".

Even though I know what it means, I would like you with your own words explain this issue. And would you expect that kind of comment from a professor? From some uneducated maybe, but not from a highly educated person.


But being a some kind of realist, if I would have kids, it would be Finland for me to stay. Definitely. Also after retiring!

What John C. said was quite a neutral thing expressed by a dozen words. If you see it negatively, then it is a reflection of your mind.

t, masao

[Susan]

Thanks Hank.


I don't consider speaking one's mind rude at all. I think it's healthy. Do you like when people say something to you and it's not what they really think? When they don't speak with the truth? I don't. I like when people are honest. When I don't have to wonder about what they are saying...


I know there is a lot of grey in between but ... should I think that all what I've read, all what my friends have said is not true? All what I saw by myself?
Should I go on and try anyway? Should I live the experience by myself? Or should I keep the dream as a dream?

Why do you live in Finland? What makes you stay there?

[Susan]

What John C. said was quite a neutral thing expressed by a dozen words. If you see it negatively, then it is a reflection of your mind.

I certainly like that. The way we see things is the reflection of our minds... There is no doubt about it.

[toukokuu]

Hi Masao and others,

The quote about the American professor... If people think Finland is a laid-back, eastern, extra -Soviet country with high levels of finlandization still going on, that is not true. These things have some influence in our present culture and system. However, what I dont like, is all that negative chat and talk about Russia.

Russia is a great country and the people are really interesting and intelligent. They are often more civilised, based on personal perception, than the Americans. Americans are more provincial. It is FInland's position between east and west which gives the strength to our cultural heritage and our mentalities.

To Baris, what I wrote about the situation with Turkishmen was not a joke. We were several ladies, and had to flee because the situation was so uncomfortable. The other experiences are little milder, but still of the same altitude, men hunting "flesh".Same experience with Morrocoean men. Even worse when I was in on a trip in Morocco. Happy to get back from there. I am not meaning to offend anyone. As I said, i was happy to meet these intelligent Turkish people recently, and you also seem to be a very broad person.

By the way, do you know if there is still the Finnish-Turkish society in Helsinki? If I dont get it wrong, they had some kind of office in Hameentie some years ago.

[Hank W.]

Do you like when people say something to you and it's not what they really think? When they don't speak with the truth?

no, I haven't tried a career in politics

I know there is a lot of grey in between but ... should I think that all what I've read, all what my friends have said is not true? All what I saw by myself? Should I go on and try anyway? Should I live the experience by myself? Or should I keep the dream as a dream?

Live the experience, but also keep the dream, don't let reality shatter the dream.

Why do you live in Finland? What makes you stay there?

A big debt and a small farm