Urgently need Digital Satellite Reciever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

catcher · Post by **catcher** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:16 am

Finally, found @ verkkokauppa.com !!!!

Thanks a lot.

**Sponsor:**

catcher · Post by **catcher** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:05 pm

Guys do you have any experience with verkkokauppa?????

I was in their shop in Ruoholahti today and asked customer service if there is any money back guarantee like 14 days or so.. person told me that there is 14 days money back if I don't open the box and return it untouched??!!!

I asked him whay if I buy this receiver, open the box, connect it to Tv and then I find that quality is not so good? He said that in this way you can't return it back even after 1 day:((((( You can only return if you don't open the box:)))

How that can be? In all other shops you can return any item in some days... more than 100 companies in the world produce receivers and different devices have different quality.

I still need a receiver:(((((

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:15 pm

catcher wrote:Guys do you have any experience with verkkokauppa?????

I was in their shop in Ruoholahti today and asked customer service if there is any money back guarantee like 14 days or so.. person told me that there is 14 days money back if I don't open the box and return it untouched??!!!

I asked him whay if I buy this receiver, open the box, connect it to Tv and then I find that quality is not so good? He said that in this way you can't return it back even after 1 day:((((( You can only return if you don't open the box:)))

How that can be? In all other shops you can return any item in some days... more than 100 companies in the world produce receivers and different devices have different quality.

I still need a receiver:(((((

That does seem odd - if the product is of a bad quality, then (at least in principle) you should have the right to return it to the shop... I do understand that you're usually not allowed to return, say, a cd, on merely the reason that you did not LIKE it (if the cd's obviously fawlty, then it's another matter)... I don't know the exact legislation I'm afraid, but this deal sounds fishy. Did they offer you a chance to try/test the device in any way in the shop?

Check out if the Consumer Agency has anything to say about this

http://www.kuluttajavirasto.fi/

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:19 pm

There is no such thing as "returning a product" in Finland - if there is no "defect". You can touch it and feel it but may not "use" it. Online (by post) buying is 14 days returnability - from the store - none.

Verkkoakuppa's TOS is quite... hrm... http://www.verkkokauppa.com/?page=http: ... pimusehdot

Well, they started as selling computer parts so what do you think they got back as returns - a few processors hammered in and fried motherboards...

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:30 pm

Hank W. wrote: There is no such thing as "returning a product" in Finland - if there is no "defect".

Yeah, maybe that's it... not fair, maybe, at least not in all cases. Maybe they're expecting that you regularly read Tekniikan Maailma, HiFi mags and so on...

I've never tried to take anything back to the shop (unless there's been a fault that is) so who am I to know? I usually demand to see some tangible proof of the quality of the product, especially when it comes to stereo equipment and things like that (although I'm no audio freak). If this can not be arranged, then... off to another shop.

(Incidentally, when I was working at a cd shop many years back, there was a customer who wished to get his money back because the cd version of The Beatles' double cd 1962-1966 -the so-called "Red Collection- did not meet today's hifi standards in his opinion... apparently, he had to his utter disappointment heard something that strangely sounded like tape hiss in the background...)

catcher · Post by **catcher** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:36 pm

Hank W. wrote: There is no such thing as "returning a product" in Finland - if there is no "defect". You can touch it and feel it but may not "use" it. Online (by post) buying is 14 days returnability - from the store - none.

Verkkoakuppa's TOS is quite... hrm... http://www.verkkokauppa.com/?page=http: ... pimusehdot

Well, they started as selling computer parts so what do you think they got back as returns - a few processors hammered in and fried motherboards...

No there is such thing:) I purchased a TV from Anttila and I had a right to return it in 15 days since purchase and I had a right to use it all these days... Receipts from many shops say at the botton 'return in 7 or 15 days' and it doesn't matter if you purchase it online or not.

I've purchased a digital camera from Musta Porssi and they told me that I have a right to return it in 2 weeks if I'm not satisfied. Again it was not an online purchase.

Purchased a computer part from Clas Ohlson and again they told me that I can return it if it doesn't work on my PC.. the only thing they told me is to be careful with unpacking, so they could pack again and sell:)

Unfortunately, all these shops don't sell satellite receivers:(

I even can't touch or see receiver in verkkokauppa because all their boxes are sealed and I can't even test it because they don't have a dish to connect...

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:38 pm

Okay, this is how the world wags - cut & paste from the Finnish Consumer Agency pages FAQ section:

A sale is an agreement – it usually can’t be cancelled

Legally, the purchase of a product or service signifies the making of a contract. Neither party can unilaterally vary a contract. This means that you cannot simply back out of a purchase agreement you have made, even though you subsequently regret having made it.

A consumer can only return a defect free product and get the purchase price refunded if the seller agrees. In this case the seller can, if he so wishes, demand reasonable compensation, in other words a so-called cancellation charge. If a consumer is unsure about the suitability of the purchase, it is best to try to purchase the product on approval, and ask for this to be marked on the receipt.

Many shops and department stores offer consumers the right to exchange or return products. This is a non-obligatory customer service on their behalf, and the shop itself can set the conditions for returning products.

I have seen the light

So you're both right; there may be a return option, but it rather depends on the goodwill of the seller. Good to ask beforehand, or try and negotiate perhaps

Otherwise... well, then it's just customer service that sucks. These things are not cheap I presume, so a return possibility would appear to be reasonable. But it's not obligatory

catcher · Post by **catcher** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:09 pm

sammy wrote:Okay, this is how the world wags - cut & paste from the Finnish Consumer Agency pages FAQ section:

A sale is an agreement – it usually can’t be cancelled

Legally, the purchase of a product or service signifies the making of a contract. Neither party can unilaterally vary a contract. This means that you cannot simply back out of a purchase agreement you have made, even though you subsequently regret having made it.

A consumer can only return a defect free product and get the purchase price refunded if the seller agrees. In this case the seller can, if he so wishes, demand reasonable compensation, in other words a so-called cancellation charge. If a consumer is unsure about the suitability of the purchase, it is best to try to purchase the product on approval, and ask for this to be marked on the receipt.

Many shops and department stores offer consumers the right to exchange or return products. This is a non-obligatory customer service on their behalf, and the shop itself can set the conditions for returning products.

I have seen the light

So you're both right; there may be a return option, but it rather depends on the goodwill of the seller. Good to ask beforehand, or try and negotiate perhaps

Otherwise... well, then it's just customer service that sucks. These things are not cheap I presume, so a return possibility would appear to be reasonable. But it's not obligatory

The cheapest model they have now is about 100€ and I can't simply buy it without testing or an option to return it in 1 day.

Looks like a wrong shop:)

dusty_bin · Post by **dusty_bin** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:31 am

Many years ago, I worked in a large home electronics retail chain, not Dixons. (UK!) We had a policy that clients could return goods for exchange if they did not like them. It was not available on everything, but most goods were covered. (Some items, it was simply not practical to do so.) In a way it depended upon the goodwill of ALL our clients, becasue, after all, once something comes back to the shop, it still has to be sold... right...?
Anyway, this worked well for a long time, a couple of decades, in fact. Sometimes we would not accept goods back because they had badly damaged packing, or use marks, but towards the end of my time with the firm, it was getting harder and harder to make the system work. Clients refused to accept items that had been returned and insisted on sealed boxes, even though company policy was to open every box, put on a mains plug and make sure the item was fully functional, before releasing it to the client.

So, what were we to do? It was case of destruction of the commons, we offered a free, unique, package of services to all, that benefitted all and at prices that were as low as the cheapest retail chains. If we could not resell goods at normal prices then we had to increase the prices of all goods and, of course we had to discontinue our free plug, setup and test service as well as the trial period. So, clients lost out. They paid no more money, but they all got less good service. These days, Dixons have been prosecuted for doing what we used to do as a matter of course and as a benefit to our clients.

As we were selling HiFi it and tv it made perfect sense to allow clients to see & hear goods in their own homes.

What do Antilla do with their returns? I do not recall seeing goods sold cheap as customer returns. Can they resell at full price? I am sure they can not afford simply to scrap the item, or to job it on to a salvage merchant (they pay, in the UK, about 10% of retail)

catcher · Post by **catcher** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:23 am

I have no idea about Anttila, but Hobby Hall and Gingantti sell them about 20% cheaper. Hobby Hall has a department of returned items, which is bigger than department of new items:) And believe me people go first to that department to see if there is anything cheap.

I'm sure they don't loose anything... their regular price is so high that even if they sell it at 50% they still benefit:))))

Jussi · Post by **Jussi** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:05 pm

there are 2 satelite receivers in the week shop in oulu..around 50€ each... have you checked your local second hand shop????

Cheers

Jussi

catcher · Post by **catcher** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:14 pm

Jussi wrote:there are 2 satelite receivers in the week shop in oulu..around 50€ each... have you checked your local second hand shop????

Cheers

Jussi

what is a week shop? I checked every shop available in Helsinki and still can't find anything. I gave up with verkkokauppa because they don't let me test device at the shop and refuse to take it back even after 1 day.

I tried Akiba.fi but their shop is closed.. looks like they are moving to another place or smtg...

Quite amazing that there are a lotta shops, but no one sells receivers...

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:44 pm

If you know what kinds verkkokauppa sells try ordering one from Germany. but you need to know if the insides are the same.

catcher · Post by **catcher** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:09 pm

Hank W. wrote:If you know what kinds verkkokauppa sells try ordering one from Germany. but you need to know if the insides are the same.

Hank do you know any reliable online shop in Germany?

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:30 pm

(sorry, couldn't resist )

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Urgently need Digital Satellite Reciever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!