We would say "mennään baariin Finntowniin" and "mennään järvelle kalaan Finntowniin".smoo wrote:You mean that for a given place, there are different conventions depending on what you are talking about, and that these aren't consistent from place to place? So for another place (say Finntowni) it could be ""mennään baariin Finntowniin" and "mennään järvelle Finntownille" ??Like "mennään baariin kaljalle" but "mennään järvelle kalaan"
Quick case question
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Hank W.
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Well,
Mennään baariin kaljalle Finntowniin.
There is a bar in Finntown and you need to go there to drink beer, going to the bar to drink is your idea, Finntown is where this can be done.
Mennään baariin kaljalle Finntownissa.
Once we get to Finntown, lets go have a beer. You are going to Finntown is the idea in the first place, going to have a beer in the bar is what you can do when you get there.
Finntown does not get 'lle' ending. Its all wrong
Mennään baariin kaljalle Finntowniin.
There is a bar in Finntown and you need to go there to drink beer, going to the bar to drink is your idea, Finntown is where this can be done.
Mennään baariin kaljalle Finntownissa.
Once we get to Finntown, lets go have a beer. You are going to Finntown is the idea in the first place, going to have a beer in the bar is what you can do when you get there.
Finntown does not get 'lle' ending. Its all wrong
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
The most often quoted exception is Tampere / Tampereelle, but there are quite a lot of others. It was said earlier that -lle implies being "on" a place as opposed to in a place. Remembering back some years our teacher told us that the -lle / -lla / -lta. ending is quite logical - these places tend to be on water or on hillssmoo wrote:Oops, yes, of course, I was thinking there was a place called Fish or something....
But if the jarvi was a mile away from Finntowni rather than in the middle of it, might you possibly say "mennään järvelle kalaan Finntownille" instead?
on rivers - joki e.g. Seinäjoki -> Seinäjoellä)
Koski = rapids (again on a river) Kuusankoski -> Kuusankoselle (Hank's example)
niemi = cape / headland (sticks into water) Rovaniemi -> Rovaniemelle
On hills - mäki e.g. Kokemäki -> kokemäellä
Tampere is the only one that is not really logical (edit - at least to me, bnut hank explains why!), but if you visit Tampere, it's practically surrounded by water, so it's easy to understand why it gets -lle / -lla / -lta.
Watch out to for kpt changes, I'm crap at them
Back to your example
then if it is a mile away from Fintown, it is niether in nor on Fintown, but closeby or nearsmoo wrote:But if the jarvi was a mile away from Finntowni rather than in the middle of it, might you possibly say "mennään järvelle kalaan Finntownille" instead?
"mennään järvelle kalaan Finntownin lähellä" is how I'd try to say it.
Last edited by sinikala on Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You tell me...? You're the native!Hank W. wrote:How the hell should you know Tampere or Imatra have rapids. Vantaa has rapids - logic works, but what about Oulu then? Eh?
How about this...
Oulujoen suu on ikivanha kauppapaikka. Oulu-nimi tulee saamenkielisestä tulvavettä tarkoittavasta sanasta.
So, Lappish word for floodwater.
Just to be an a**, I'm going to say you're wrong, well, because you are wrong.sinikala wrote:The most often quoted exception is Tampere / Tampereelle, but there are quite a lot of others. It was said earlier that -lle implies being "on" a place as opposed to in a place. Remembering back some years our teacher told us that the -lle / -lla / -lta. ending is quite logical - these places tend to be on water or on hills
on rivers - joki e.g. Seinäjoki -> Seinäjoellä)
Koski = rapids (again on a river) Kuusankoski -> Kuusankoselle (Hank's example)
niemi = cape / headland (sticks into water) Rovaniemi -> Rovaniemelle
On hills - mäki e.g. Kokemäki -> kokemäellä
Almost? all those towns with geographical names in them (-joki, -niemi, etc.) take the allative/etc. (Seinäjoelle), whereas if they are part of a bigger town, they take the illative/etc. (Otaniemessä).
If you say Seinäjoessa, you're in the river (been there, done that, don't know why I didn't take the bridge 0=)).
The one that got me at first was kirkolle vs. kirkkoon. I knew my spouse's family wasn't religious, so I didn't quite know what to say when they started talking about going to church (at least that's what I thought they were saying
). They wanted to go in town (kirkolle).-enk
take the
What is a boondox? (as I don't speak Yank)Hank W. wrote:You live in the boondox, you should know
The difference between what you said and what my old teacher said being?enk wrote:Just to be an a**, I'm going to say you're wrong, well, because you are wrong.sinikala wrote:The most often quoted exception is Tampere / Tampereelle, but there are quite a lot of others. It was said earlier that -lle implies being "on" a place as opposed to in a place. Remembering back some years our teacher told us that the -lle / -lla / -lta. ending is quite logical - these places tend to be on water or on hills
on rivers - joki e.g. Seinäjoki -> Seinäjoella)
Koski = rapids (again on a river) Kuusankoski -> Kuusankoselle (Hank's example)
niemi = cape / headland (sticks into water) Rovaniemi -> Rovaniemelle
On hills - mäki e.g. Kokemäki -> kokemäellä
Almost? all those towns with geographical names in them (-joki, -niemi, etc.) take the allative/etc. (Seinäjoelle), whereas if they are part of a bigger town, they take the illative/etc. (Otaniemessä).
If you say Seinäjoessa, you're in the river (been there, done that, don't know why I didn't take the bridge 0=)).
Boondocks = the sticks = Jumalan selän takanasinikala wrote:What is a boondox? (as I don't speak Yank)Hank W. wrote:You live in the boondox, you should know
Read it again.sinikala wrote:The difference between what you said and what my old teacher said being?enk wrote:Just to be an a**, I'm going to say you're wrong, well, because you are wrong.sinikala wrote:The most often quoted exception is Tampere / Tampereelle, but there are quite a lot of others. It was said earlier that -lle implies being "on" a place as opposed to in a place. Remembering back some years our teacher told us that the -lle / -lla / -lta. ending is quite logical - these places tend to be on water or on hills
on rivers - joki e.g. Seinäjoki -> Seinäjoella)
Koski = rapids (again on a river) Kuusankoski -> Kuusankoselle (Hank's example)
niemi = cape / headland (sticks into water) Rovaniemi -> Rovaniemelle
On hills - mäki e.g. Kokemäki -> kokemäellä
Almost? all those towns with geographical names in them (-joki, -niemi, etc.) take the allative/etc. (Seinäjoelle), whereas if they are part of a bigger town, they take the illative/etc. (Otaniemessä).
If you say Seinäjoessa, you're in the river (been there, done that, don't know why I didn't take the bridge 0=)).
-enk
That is true in most cases, yes, but as one might expect, there are local exceptions. In Orivesi (a bit northwards from of Tampere) they say Oriveteen when they mean let's go to Orivesi (the town). And Längelmäkeen (when going to Längelmäki). Ours not to reason why, it's a dialect thing. I'd say the correct forms would however be Orivedelle and Längelmäelle, but the locals mostly disagreeenk wrote:Almost? all those towns with geographical names in them (-joki, -niemi, etc.) take the allative/etc. (Seinäjoelle), whereas if they are part of a bigger town, they take the illative/etc. (Otaniemessä).
>> The one that got me at first was kirkolle vs. kirkkoon. I knew my spouse's family wasn't religious, so I didn't quite know what to say when they started talking about going to church (at least that's what I thought they were saying ). They wanted to go in town (kirkolle). <<
The expression "mennä kirkolle" can only be used in small towns. I do not think that anybody living in Tampere or Helsinki would use it. The main church in small towns is often near the town centre.
In big cities people would say "mennä keskustaan" ( go downtown ).
Isn´t "mennä kirkolle" an expression that is becoming more and more uncommon?
The expression "mennä kirkolle" can only be used in small towns. I do not think that anybody living in Tampere or Helsinki would use it. The main church in small towns is often near the town centre.
In big cities people would say "mennä keskustaan" ( go downtown ).
Isn´t "mennä kirkolle" an expression that is becoming more and more uncommon?