Dual verbs question... Changing the subject...

[EP]

I can understand that it would be possible to write a manual or straightforward instructions without lauseenvastikkeet, but can you imagine what dropping them from language would do to literature? Even a simple magazine artickle would be tedious to read, but imagine a whole book without them.

[donald]

Then the question rises why should written language be different than spoken language. I agree that some sort of standard should be used, meaning use of the same orthography and the same set of words and set of grammar for a language region, but why should written language use different words and a different set of grammar than spoken language? Spoken language has been around first! Why should written language differ from its real and living counterpart? Writing imitates a spoken language, not vice versa.

If a simple article or piece of literature that has no additional features compers to spoken language is tedious to read, it is because one is not used to.

[sammy]

If a simple article or piece of literature that has no additional features compers to spoken language is tedious to read, it is because one is not used to.

Could be, but then again this is also true the other way around. If -let's say- Proustian sentence structures (and nuances of observation and human experience that can be reached through florid and multi-layered language usage) appear tedious to read, maybe it's just that one is not used to it.

A question of taste... but I for one prefer non-simplified literature and a varied style of writing. All the same, I'm not saying that simple style writing would be useless or less "genuine" by definition!

And of course, news articles and shopping lists are a different matter altogether.

[Hank W.]

but why should written language use different words and a different set of grammar than spoken language? Spoken language has been around first! Why should written language differ from its real and living counterpart? Writing imitates a spoken language, not vice versa.

死鬼佬

[sammy]

Speaking of the difference between spoken and written language, here's some proof of the inventiveness of Finnish - we also have punctuation marks in our spoken language!

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Puhekielen kielioppia

Kirjoitetun kielen eksaktiuden ylivertaisuus puhuttuun kieleen verrattuna perustuu mm. siihen, että kirjoitetussa tekstissä voimme erilaisilla välimerkeillä jäsentää, rytmittää ja erottaa eri asia- ja ajatuskokonaisuuksia. Ensimmäisenä kielenä maailmassa Suomi on kehittynyt siten, että myös puhutussa kielessä on välimerkit.

Esimerkkejä:

Tota

Vastaa kirjoitetun kielen pilkkua ja ajatusviivaa. Esim: "Ja sitte se sano mulle tota että sun pitää ostaa maitoo tota piimää ja tota kaiken lisäksi tota röökii"

Niinku

Vastaa pilkkua (kts. kohta tota), mutta on merkitykseltään vahvempi. "Niinku" on usein myös puolipiste tai piste. Esim: "Mä läksin kotiin niinku Mut siellä ei ollu ketään niinku talo oli tyhjä niinku"

Tieksä

Yllättävää kyllä, "Tieksä" ei vastaa kysymysmerkkiä, vaan pistettä. Esim: "Mua oksetti aamulla tieksä Tuli otettuu illalla tieksä Mut duunii oli pakko painaa tieksä"

v!%#

Käyttökelpoisin puhutun kielen välimerkki. "v!%#" vastaa kaikkia kielellemme tyypillisiä välimerkkejä, joten sitä voi käyttää yleisvälimerkkinä läpi koko puheen. Esim: "Maikka sano mulle v!%# et jos matikka v!%# kielet v!%# ja muu v!%# tarkotti koulua noin yleensä v!%# ei kiinnosta v!%# niin mä voin lähtee vetään v!%#"

Saatana (tai muu kirosana)

Nykysuomen puhekielessä kirosanaa käytetään osoittamaan huutomerkkiä. Esim: "Mä paan daijuun kaikkia saatana" Tai: "Voi v!%# kun on hauskaa saatana"

Kato hei

Uuden lauseen alkaminen kirjoitetussa kielessä osoitetaan isolla kirjaimella. Puhutussa kielessä isoa aloituskirjainta vastaa ilmaisu "Kato hei" Esim: "Kato hei viina ei oo mikään ongelma v!%# (=piste) Kato hei mä voin juoda niin paljo ku mä haluun saatana" (=huutomerkki)

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(Originally, this comes from the Pahkasika magazine and was published already in the 80's IIRC.)

[donald]

死鬼佬

Sorry, I don't speak Swedish..... ¡No entiendo, señor!

[Hank W.]

Well, see now Donald, written Chinese is a common written language with logosyllabic morphemes that are independent of phonetic change. So grossly exaggearated - two Chinese people may not be able to talk to each other, but they can write to each other

[muhaha]

I can understand that it would be possible to write a manual or straightforward instructions without lauseenvastikkeet, but can you imagine what dropping them from language would do to literature? Even a simple magazine artickle would be tedious to read, but imagine a whole book without them.

What did the loss of "ablativus absolutus", "accusativus cum infinitivo" etc. do to Italian (Latin) literature?

[Hank W.]

Maxima catastropha politica?


Madeleine Albright, ministra a rebus exteris praesidentis Bill Clinton, censet bellum,
quod in Iraquia geritur, esse maximam catastropham politicae externae Americanorum.
Si qua terra ex condicionibus Iraquiae utilitatem perceperit, eam esse Iraniam.
Unum ex pessimis effectibus belli Iraquici esse, quod Irania convaluerit.

Damn hard for nmy brain, but http://www.yleradio1.fi/nuntii/

Die nono huius mensis (9.4.) in Finnia memoria episcopi Michaelis Agricolae, reformatoris ecclesiae Finniae et fundatoris linguae nostrae litterariae, variis sollemnitatibus recolebatur. Eo enim ipso die quadringenti quinquaginta anni a morte eius lapsi erant. Dies festus inauguratus est in Ecclesia cathedrali Aboensi, ubi officium divinum oecumenicum celebrabatur archiepiscopo Jukka Paarma praedicante. Etiam ministerium aerarii publici ad honorem Agricolae habendum suum contulit, cum nummum argenteum in publico proposuit, cuius una pars imagine Agricolae, altera autem figura calami scriptorii ornata est.

[Rob A.]

Damn hard for nmy brain, but http://www.yleradio1.fi/nuntii/

I heard about this a few months ago and I think this is just the neatest thing... Here's the English language part of the link:

http://www.yleradio1.fi/nuntii/id50.shtml

I'm curious who the audience would be...surely not the Cardinals in Rome?...

And which pronunciation protocol!?!...I guess I better just listen to figure that out...though my Latin is decidely weak....