Looks like the fees are coming

[Upphew]

Everyone should have free access to information and education.

I totally agree, but whether it is equally true that "Everyone should have free access to education from Finland" is a point that can be debated. There are pros and cons.

Hmm, I'm not quite sure, but aren't lectures "open" as in you can go to them even if you are not student? So it is the degree or diploma that people want, not education or information.

[sammy]

Hmm, I'm not quite sure, but aren't lectures "open" as in you can go to them even if you are not student? So it is the degree or diploma that people want, not education or information.

Well, yes, a good point That is usually true when we talk about lectures, more or less anyone can just walk in and listen... but in order to attend seminars and small-group classroom/laboratory work etc... you need to be a student. And obviously only registered students can obtain a degree.

[jazzori]

Education should be free for everyone unless we desperately want stupidity's rate (or/and ignorance) to grow higher than already is. Everyone should have free access to information and education. Period.

Indeed, but it's hardly reasonable to expect a country with less than 0.1% of the world's population to provide a free education for the other 99.9%, is it?

It already does! So it is possible! I am not expecting it to educate the whole world, of course, but I don't agree for it that was once free to impose taxes. They can, I don't know, maybe higher the standards of admission, but please.. education should be free for everyone. It should come as basic after the need of eating and drinking.. the need of learning, understanding, knowing.

[jazzori]

Education should be free for everyone unless we desperately want stupidity's rate (or/and ignorance) to grow higher than already is. Everyone should have free access to information and education. Period.

And why should the tax-paying residents of Finland pay for this nice little happy dream of yours? It is not like the students will stay in Finland and learn Finnish and integrate into society and get jobs and pay some taxes back (there are exceptions, but they are just lucky examples, not the rule). Go to your own country and demand free education!

Actually.. what's the tax paid by Finnish residents that goes to education? Cause I don't know. It must be a huge sum and for a totally wrong reason. To educate. Others and not Finns. Must be outrageous.

I feel that I have to mention that it is not a happy little dream of ours. Or maybe it is. But speaking for myself, it's a need. I have to get a degree and build a life if i want not to have the bright future of a homeless person.
Since education is free in Finland, Finnish society and employers set a high standard when it comes to hiring people. That leaves me with no option since i've got no degree. Not even the cleaning firms call back.

See, people like me feel hurt when there's some Finn happily settled in his home, having a job, a wife and a sauna growling what a good idea is to pay the school. People like me, once again, they only ask for the chance to study and the chance to work. We just want the chance to fight and work ourselves in order to become part of a civilized society. My home country doesn't offer me free education and, without education, it doesn't offer me a job (that could help me pay for my studies). I have no options there. I do have them here and it's like the bread of God. But there goes some Finnish dude laughing satisfied at the fact that the pursue of education is made harder and harder.

And I'm not only feeling sorry for myself here. Besides me, there are young persons that have a much harsh life situation to face. Why should they be taken of the right to turn their lives into something useful? It's pitiful that someone can feel content at the thought of denying other people's study. Even if they're foreigners in Finland.

PS. As I posted above, I do not demand for the free education to be set, it is already. I would just wish for the situation to stay like that.

[sammy]

Jazzori,

Even if the tuition fees are applied to non-EU students in the future, the regular Finnish- and Swedish-language study programmes will be free of charge IIRC. So education is free for everyone, hey presto.

So, someone doesn't know Finnish? Perhaps the Finnish universities should therefore offer all their education in Chinese, too, for "free" of course. Why should we provide free education only for those who can read this thread? (Believe it or not, not everyone knows English - how about those people then huh? Should they be left out of the equation? Are they not people, but linguistically challenged non-EU riff-raff?)

Do you now see what we're talking about? Tuition fees proposed for foreign-language study programmes (ie English-language Master's programmes) in Finland - a country that in not an English-speaking country. Yes, there are countries where people are poor and have little choice. But it's just naïve to think that these problems would go away by Finland offering free higher education to anyone (as long as he/she speaks English... )

We're not talking about developmental cooperation via higher education; that would be a different issue and there are programmes for that already in use.

As said, there are pros and cons.

[rinso]

My home country doesn't offer me free education and, without education, it doesn't offer me a job.

Why are you bitching about plans and rumours In Finland, instead of doing your complaining at home.

Go back and fight the system in your home country. But don't tell Finns who should or shouldn't profit from Finnish tax payers money.

[interleukin]

As far as I can tell, current residents of Finland will not have to pay any fees, not even if they are non-EU. Which means that you can stop complaining that you cannot survive here and study. Learn Finnish and you will get a job.

The fees would stop people coming to Finland to study a few years for free, not contribute in any way to the wellfare of the Finnish people (by paying taxes or having a life here), i e to parasitise on the system. I myself have been teaching students who come here for a free masters degree and they brag that they will leave again as soon as possible and go home and have a great life.
Why on earth should Finnish residents pay for that? Sorry, but !"#¤% about how education should be free is just irrational. If you want, you can go on youtube and find free lectures from universities all over the world, you can learn a lot of things and its FREE.

so stop complaining so much

[jazzori]

My home country doesn't offer me free education and, without education, it doesn't offer me a job.

Why are you bitching about plans and rumours In Finland, instead of doing your complaining at home.

Go back and fight the system in your home country. But don't tell Finns who should or shouldn't profit from Finnish tax payers money.

I won't. This is the country I want to grow old in. And I'm willing to contribute to its grow as i can. But in this moment I only ask for the things to remain as they are. That's first. Second, I have the freedom to bitch, so I won't stop cause rinso says.

[jazzori]

As far as I can tell, current residents of Finland will not have to pay any fees, not even if they are non-EU. Which means that you can stop complaining that you cannot survive here and study. Learn Finnish and you will get a job.

The fees would stop people coming to Finland to study a few years for free, not contribute in any way to the wellfare of the Finnish people (by paying taxes or having a life here), i e to parasitise on the system. I myself have been teaching students who come here for a free masters degree and they brag that they will leave again as soon as possible and go home and have a great life.
Why on earth should Finnish residents pay for that? Sorry, but !"#¤% about how education should be free is just irrational. If you want, you can go on youtube and find free lectures from universities all over the world, you can learn a lot of things and its FREE.

so stop complaining so much

You cannot regard us all as uptight PhD students that come and go and do not give a !"#¤%. And somehow i don't expect you to get my point of view since you're so far from the situation. As well as I cannot fully comprehend yours. You complain, I complain, everyone complains. Yes.

[jazzori]

Jazzori,

Even if the tuition fees are applied to non-EU students in the future, the regular Finnish- and Swedish-language study programmes will be free of charge IIRC. So education is free for everyone, hey presto.

So, someone doesn't know Finnish? Perhaps the Finnish universities should therefore offer all their education in Chinese, too, for "free" of course. Why should we provide free education only for those who can read this thread? (Believe it or not, not everyone knows English - how about those people then huh? Should they be left out of the equation? Are they not people, but linguistically challenged non-EU riff-raff?)

Do you now see what we're talking about? Tuition fees proposed for foreign-language study programmes (ie English-language Master's programmes) in Finland - a country that in not an English-speaking country. Yes, there are countries where people are poor and have little choice. But it's just naïve to think that these problems would go away by Finland offering free higher education to anyone (as long as he/she speaks English... )

We're not talking about developmental cooperation via higher education; that would be a different issue and there are programmes for that already in use.

As said, there are pros and cons.

I understand now. I feel a bit stupid for raising my voice..

[AlexInHelsinki]

It's also worth mentioning that a university education in Finland isn't free for everyone. You have to get accepted first.

[Rosamunda]

...and the students have to support themselves while they are here. The vast majority of the ones I have met are working at least part-time.

I speak to these students every week and believe me, they are extremely grateful for the opportunity to study here and genuinely emotional about the opportunity Finland has given them to take skills, knowledge and expertise back to their home countries (eg: developing nations in Africa) and help improve conditions at home. It's true, most of them do not want to stay here, but as a taxpayer it does not bother me that we are subsidising their studies. In fact when I listen to them I feel quite warm and fuzzy that Finland is hosting them and giving them opportunities that richer, bigger more affluent nations are reluctant to offer.

Na!

[Vesper]

and in a few weeks' time we'll see inquiries from abroad asking whether it is true that in order to study in Finland you need to pay 20.000€ tuition fees per week, have your left arm and your right leg sawn off at the customs, and learn to whistle Porilaisten marssi and Maamme laulu simultaneously.

I would actually tell that is true - especially to people from certain countries

haha! that's so evil!

maybe they should impose an application fee of 30 euros or so... it would help ease the tax payer's money and diminish the flow of fake applicants. oh yeah, if it hasn't been posted before, the 1st time student residence permit went up from 55 to 100 euros.

[dampa]

...and so Finland thinks that number of students (foreign) will increase this way?

Only legitimate student will get it and I am sure some people will still go ahead and come into Finland, pay the school fees just to be here and move on to the final destination without even doing a thing here in Finland. It is happening as I type and Finland wont be the last.

[sammy]

...and so Finland thinks that number of students (foreign) will increase this way?

Pfft, I don't believe for a second that even you'd think it is that simple - as if only changing (or not changing, which is the alternative) the cost of the education for the student would be the reason why this or that degree programme is, or is not, desirable. Besides, if the number of foreign students was the sole goal of higher education, I'd probably throw in the towel.

Yes, the universities do plan to attract more foreign students (this is no news, it's been on the agenda for quite some time already and if you read that strategy thing you'll find this goal has not been discarded) - but it's just one piece in the jigsaw.

I speak to these students every week and believe me, they are extremely grateful for the opportunity to study here and genuinely emotional about the opportunity Finland has given them to take skills, knowledge and expertise back to their home countries (eg: developing nations in Africa) and help improve conditions at home. It's true, most of them do not want to stay here, but as a taxpayer it does not bother me that we are subsidising their studies. In fact when I listen to them I feel quite warm and fuzzy that Finland is hosting them and giving them opportunities that richer, bigger more affluent nations are reluctant to offer.

Well that's one of the pro's in not having tuition fees...