Divorce and Losing my Visa

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ajdias
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Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 9:01 pm

Re: Divorce and Losing my Visa

Post by ajdias » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:12 pm

Just noticed this article on YLE News:
  • Increasing numbers of couples and families in Finland seek help on a therapist's couch. The demands on spouses are growing, and relationships are beginning to hit the rocks earlier than before, says the Family Federation.

    Queues for therapy are growing at the Federation, and the organisation is finding it impossible to accommodate all the pleas for help.

    Full article: More Couples Seeking Therapy
Nice illustration...
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Re: Divorce and Losing my Visa

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BillyBob
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Re: Divorce and Losing my Visa

Post by BillyBob » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:29 am

Very... very well put you guys. I didn't realize there were so many of us with the same experiences. I am sure a Master's course at university could be devoted to the people posting here.

I read your thoughts input a lot and laugh at some as their words are exactly what my life is like!! maybe some of you nod as you know what they are talking about.

we have gone to the counseling, does this and that, but for the future in 1 year or 2, its gone gonna end with us walking down different paths. Knowing that, what support does someone have here? Not JUST with the city and permits, but on a social level too... how do people treat you, how do you communicate with other cultures the unique situation you're going through?

AldenG, you are hitting on the same issues I'm needing, hard to explain but your advice was great, thank you!
Cory, the only was I learn is metaphors! :)

My wife and I have discussed separating... what is the first step I need to do legally after packing the bags?

AldenG
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Re: Divorce and Losing my Visa

Post by AldenG » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:53 am

Cory wrote: You need to talk to a professional about your visa issue, though.
That is my paramount concern for you as well, BillyBob.

After reading the PDF extract and the FAQ about residence permits on the migri website, to me the prospects of your staying in Finland long-term do not look promising. I would assume that any conversation you have about this with Migri or your local police will appear as a note in your immigration file. Asking about the consequences of divorce is a red flag -- it suggests that subsequently staying together is done for fraudulent purposes. If you and your wife were after all to reconcile, such a note could become problematic three years from now when it's time to convert to a permanent A-permit. Maybe I'm just carrying some kind of instinctual memory of the Kännö era and maybe it's no longer valid. But for me, it's hard to escape the feeling you're screwed if you divorce too early (or maybe even if you do so too soon after getting the permanent permit) and you're screwed if you convert the marriage to a "fake" marriage.

If you had (or have) a job in IT or another specialized field, maybe you could convert the basis of your A-permit to employment. If you divorce and switch to a B-permit, you're going to have to show a bunch of money in the bank that you didn't have to show to get accepted at the university (it sounds like you have been...). And of course you'll have to buy health insurance. In either case, converting the A to employment-based or converting to a B, you might have to leave the country for a while, it sounds like. There's the additional hassle that when you finished your degree program, you'd have to find a basis for converting the B to an A -- marriage, specialized employment, or something like that. Else it's back to the U.S. with a degree that although factually superior to a U.S. university degree (in most fields) will be quite problematic if you try to get into a graduate program or government job in the U.S. Most universities require evaluation by a so-called professional, and I have seen some spectacularly incompetent and dishonest (borderline criminal) cases there. Finland's university system is not familiar to these U.S. degree-evaluation companies, which really ought to be called rackets, and so they wing it.

The longer you stay in Finland, as long as you like it and manage to feel at home, the harder it becomes to return to the U.S. Not least is the problem of returning without a job after years of having most of your money go to taxes and basics. But more than that is the cultural problem. Sure you may miss the huge thunderstorms, the vast plains and prairies, the seacoasts, the mountains, the national parks, maybe the bar culture, maybe even the tourist traps. But you find that you have lost your immunity and blinders against the magnitude and volume of ignorance, incompetence, complacency, and general snafu culture. Listening to the political discourse becomes almost impossible.

So regarding whatever you file and whomever you talk to, treat it like chess. Think several moves ahead. Don't act until you're sure of the consequences of each action. Because if you simply hope for the best and assume the authorities will treat you in a way you consider fair, I'm pretty sure it won't turn out that way at all.

To file for divorce a year after getting a marriage-based A-Permit is to start a high-wire walk, or at least that's my impression. Even when done in good faith, to a bureaucrat it smells like fish. And they already think of Americans as having an exaggerated sense of entitlement.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

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Pursuivant
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Re: Divorce and Losing my Visa

Post by Pursuivant » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

Well, I'd be also selfish and having rights, the other two good American traits in this question. If I was in BillyBob's sneakers I'd do nothing regarding the divorce before I got the second RP that then may be a permanent one. Its basically a question of avoiding hassle. That permit gives you the 3 years to pass university, being a "resident" and not a migrant, and gather your plan B of what to do next then. Lot can happen in 3 years... like you might even find a job. Like right now you got enough "trouble" with the marriage thing already, as if you would need any extra bureaucratic hassles on top. Otherwise, now Americans always "think positive" which people here in Finland do only when they are at the AIDS clinic - the realistic outcome might be that they'd ask you for 6K in the bank, your own medical insurance, and a yearly B permit until you graduate after which is 6 months and piss off...
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

BillyBob
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Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:34 am

Re: Divorce and Losing my Visa

Post by BillyBob » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:11 pm

"The longer you stay in Finland, as long as you like it and manage to feel at home, the harder it becomes to return to the U.S. Not least is the problem of returning without a job after years of having most of your money go to taxes and basics. But more than that is the cultural problem. Sure you may miss the huge thunderstorms, the vast plains and prairies, the seacoasts, the mountains, the national parks, maybe the bar culture, maybe even the tourist traps. But you find that you have lost your immunity and blinders against the magnitude and volume of ignorance, incompetence, complacency, and general snafu culture. Listening to the political discourse becomes almost impossible."

So true, I'll drink to that!


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