Boy circumcision in Finland

[biscayne]

I said, I knew the study from the BMJ was 1998, and that there are more recent studies. It's not about "forgetting" to check more recent articles. And, I said, I'm neither for nor against.

[biscayne]

It's important to remember most studies done on circumcised men are done on men who were circumcised as adults, they can compare how they felt before and after, a baby who is circumcised cannot. And, besides, it is usually done on adults for a medical reason, most men don't just decide to do it as adults for no particular reason.

Here is an even more recent study: It was done on 150 men who were circumcised as adults

Penile Sensitivity and Sexual Satisfaction after Circumcision: Are We Informing Men Correctly?
S. Masooda, H.R.H. Patelb, R.C. Himpsona, J.H. Palmera, G.R. Muftia, M.K.M. Sheriffa

Currently no consensus exists about the role of the foreskin or the effect circumcision has on penile sensitivity and overall sexual satisfaction.

Seventy-four percent of patients had no change in their libido levels, 69% noticed less pain during intercourse (p < 0.05), and 44% of the patients (p = 0.04) and 38% of the partners (p = 0.02) thought the penis appearance improved after circumcision.

[EP]

He was born in 68, so it must have been done in Finland at some point.

No it hasn´t. Your SO is a rare exception. Maybe his parents were in some medical field that took ideas from the US as was usual in the 1960´s. I have never seen a circumzised Finnish (or European) man. We have soap and water.

My husband told that he had problems with a too tight foreskin when he first started having sex. But he wasn´t circumzised, they had just made a tiny, couple of millimetres vertical cut. But if he would have been circumzed it would have been his own decision, not his parents.

[Tiwaz]

I said, I knew the study from the BMJ was 1998, and that there are more recent studies. It's not about "forgetting" to check more recent articles. And, I said, I'm neither for nor against.

No, you are not for or against. Your list of things just "happened" to come across rather supportive to circumcision.
Speaking on how it makes things more hygienic, as all uncircumcised men can testify that practice of washing that area during shower takes lots of time and work.

And mentioning how being strapped to chair was far more inconvenient to baby than having their penis "screwed" by machine to remove part of their penis.

Then remembering to mention how women prefer circumcised penis. (I wonder if this is study from USA where women tend to be culturally inclined towards circumcised males since this kind of child cutting is prevalent there)
And even went to make statement where you tried to claim that being baptized is somehow equivalent of having part of your penis cut off.

In essence, you definitely managed for a person who is not "for or against" to make case where you still managed to speak for the practice.

As for my posts where I do not pay attention to theoretical benefits of circumcision?
I fully admit that I am 100% against circumcision for any reason beyond medical ones.

It's important to remember most studies done on circumcised men are done on men who were circumcised as adults, they can compare how they felt before and after, a baby who is circumcised cannot. And, besides, it is usually done on adults for a medical reason, most men don't just decide to do it as adults for no particular reason.

So what? Baby not knowing what he lost somehow makes it all right?

By same logic we could justify circumcision of FEMALE. If clitoris is neatly cut off in hospital, she would never know what she lost!

[biscayne]

I'll find you articles against it if you like, as I really am not for or against.

[biscayne]

From BMJ again:


CONCLUSIONS--From the findings of this study, circumcision of men has no significant effect on the incidence of common STDs in this developed nation setting. However, these findings may not necessarily extend to other setting where hygiene is poorer and the spectrum of common STDs is different

so, we can assume Finland is a developed nation, which equals no reason to have it, if you want to read the study that way, as we all know we can read studies they way we want

regarding my friend, well his parents were world travellers, perhaps they got the idea abroad, don't know.

[Upphew]

I'll find you articles against it if you like, as I really am not for or against.

Don't bother. But please do continue to debate for it, as I think that most vocal people in this thread are against such a atrocity. There might pop up some new ideas for both sides and at least we get to argue

[EP]

He also says that our oldest son has been asking some questions about the operation so he has a feeling that he's considering "the cut" because of similar physical issues.

Our son had the same. I noticed it already when he was something like three. I talked about it in neuvola, and the doctor (or was it nurse) told us to "exercise" it. Little by little it went further and further back. I guess it streched because he has never needed the cut.

[Seen Canary]

Our 9 year old has a friend from Albania.

During the summer I remarked that I hadn't sen his Albanian friend for a while.

My 9 year old replied

" He's away to Albania to get his piipöle cut"

[EP]

I think our 24 (near 25) year old would have something to say about this!

Then he should just go and get the cut. According to my husband sex was not very fun before that. He was something like 20 at the time and the only problem with his "cut" was that he was shy. He had gone to YTHS (student´s health center), and the doctor who came to call him from the waiting room had been some "kandi" not much older than him. And of course a girl.

[Pursuivant]

What is now that tv series with Robert Mitchum and the diplomats in Germany in the 1940's... that has a very good scene for this discussion.
As for the issue - in USA in the showers I just said "We don't have jewish doctors in Finland" , pay me 5 bucks and I'll show how it functions

[Tiwaz]

My husband told that he had problems with a too tight foreskin when he first started having sex. But he wasn´t circumzised, they had just made a tiny, couple of millimetres vertical cut.

3 boys in our family, all complete. Dh had "the operation" at aged 48 because he said he'd lived long enough with pain during intercourse and before he got too old, he wanted to actually enjoy the whole experience from start to finish. Without any doubts he said if he'd known the difference in pleasure, he'd have had it done 30 years earlier. He also says that our oldest son has been asking some questions about the operation so he has a feeling that he's considering "the cut" because of similar physical issues.

As for having this done as an adult...he said there was little pain after the operation, which was done under local anesthetic, and he said he took a couple Burana 400 because of the swelling more than for the pain.

Well, your DH clearly had medical issue which makes it completely different bag of potatoes. Of course for him the process was improvement since he was in pain during intercourse.

Issue here is not circumcision for purpose of MEDICAL reason, but for any OTHER reason. I doubt many men who have active sexlife and no medical problems with their foreskin who would ever consider the operation.

[EP]

Well, your DH clearly had medical issue which makes it completely different bag of potatoes. Of course for him the process was improvement since he was in pain during intercourse.

Issue here is not circumcision for purpose of MEDICAL reason, but for any OTHER reason. I doubt many men who have active sexlife and no medical problems with their foreskin who would ever consider the operation.

I think the point is that he was NOT circumcised. The foreskin stayed. There was just a tiny vertical cut.

[Tiwaz]

ERm...

You and Cory are married to same guy? Because I am understanding that she was talking about her hubby who had the whole deal cut off.

[EP]

Well, she wrote "3 boys in our family, all complete." I just assumed that the husband is one of the boys.