Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

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AnnikaL
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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by AnnikaL » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:06 am

Rob A. wrote:But, I agree regarding spelling. The close correlation between letters and sounds makes spelling one of the easiest parts of learning Finnish...even as a second language. But for many native English speakers, proper spelling remains a life-long challenge, even for some very bright people. The "disconnect" between English spelling and pronunciation is pretty much a cliche. French spelling, too, can be difficult, but it does seem to follow a bit more of a pattern.
As an aside - rather bizarrely - my Finnish mother is better with spelling English than Finnish, to the extent that she mispelled my middle name as Lena instead of Leena. Her sister is Marja-Leena so I can't work that one out at all :?:

But she has told me that she never felt her schooling was a priority when she was growing up, noone really cared if she was at school or not. But she decided for herself later that her education was important - to escape Finland if nothing else - and managed to graduate high school, then go on to do all her nursing studies and exams in England, in English, which probably improved her skills there quite a bit. She knows a lot about grammar in general too, which she would say is from having learnt Latin for a while at school and really enjoyed it (a weird language to learn in Finland.. or anywhere!)

What this all shows, I think, is the importance of motivation for learning - not just how objectively easy or hard something should be.


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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

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EP
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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by EP » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:06 pm

she would say is from having learnt Latin for a while at school and really enjoyed it (a weird language to learn in Finland.. or anywhere!)
Not really. It used to be a standard to learn Latin if you chose a language concentrated branch in high school. After all Latin can serve as a base for learning many other languages. I know it helped me even with German and Russian. Latin grammar is so "mathematical" and clear cut that it is almost fascinatig at least if your native language is Finnish which has a very diffeent construction. Another choice was mathematics based, and then you had to learn more advanced math and sciences. Language concentrated pupils got away with more elementary stuff. But that was someting like 1960´s.

Before 1940´s you even had to learn classical Greek. But am I totally wrong when I think that it was the same also in the UK and many central European countries?

Rosamunda
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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by Rosamunda » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:23 pm

It intrigues me to read posts about grammar rules for English...

Can anyone actually quote me an English GRAMMAR rule they learned in school ("i before e except after c" is spelling, not grammar) ?

ajl
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Location: Pacific Northwest, US

Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by ajl » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:11 pm

I had only one English teacher teach me more than subject/verb and subject/verb agreement. He taught hundreds of us to diagram sentances,
gobs of rules regarding commas, semicolon and what not to do! My latin teacher only liked students from his class. Favorite books about grammar/English
are Transitive Vampire and Strunk &. White's Elements of Style. Must say the internet could be responsible for the death of English - don't know what
people use now, but it usually isn't English. I don't even use proper English anymore. However, now that I'm more than just middle aged, I've learned
how to say some funny English words - Chiswick, Glouchester, and so on.

Thankfully, my kids are learning more about parts of speech by learning Finnish.
moving is in the bad <-> crazy continuum

Bavarian
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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by Bavarian » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:18 pm

How about the ones made up by people who wanted English to be more like Latin?

Don't split infinitives.
Don't end a sentence with a preposition.

Why "If I were (not was) a rich man" is correct.

I had an English class back in 7th or 8th grade (25 years ago) in which the book still had a section on diagramming sentences.
I really do not know that anything has ever been more exciting than diagramming sentences.
--Gertrude Stein

oompah18
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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by oompah18 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:27 am

Latin? Ancient Greek? Yes I studied those at school too! I am sure the Latin is helpful in learning Finnish, because I actually remember learning what "genetive"means in English! :lol: I don´t actually remember much Latin ( :oops: ) but I do remember declining verbs with endless repetition & learning nouns by nominitive, genitive & plural (I think!), so I think it may have programmed my brain just a little to help me with learning Finnish................but there again...
Allie the Britmum, "äiti" to 3 boys, 10,9 and 7, & little princess, 4.

ajl
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Location: Pacific Northwest, US

Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by ajl » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:44 am

nouns decline, verbs conjugate - probably jokes about that kind of thing exist, sad to say

I wasn't sad we didn't have any greek in high school. Apparently there are substantially more verb forms in
ancient greek than modern greek.

So earlier I forgot to list an actual rule - use a comma after an introductory subordinate clause. Wish I knew
what percentage of Americans knew what a subordinate clause is.
moving is in the bad <-> crazy continuum

Rosamunda
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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by Rosamunda » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:58 am

Interesting.... nearly all the "rules" quoted so far have been to do with punctuation. I'm still waiting for some hard and fast grammar rules. So far we have two, both of which are defunct:

- don't split infinitives
- don't end a sentence with a preposition

(My mother - who's over 80 - learnt such rules at school; she was also taught that you couldn't split the atom.)

...and maybe (Bavarian's "If I were a rich man") some rules around the use of the subjunctive in English:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjunctiv ... in_English


Any more?

EP
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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by EP » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:31 pm

What is considered grammar?

English was the first foreign language I learned, and to me everything (except different words) is grammar. On our first lesson (I think) we learned about ARTICLES a and the (those are grammar) and I thought that they are SOOOO needless. We learned that verbs in 3rd singular have to have S after them (that is grammar, again totally needless in an 11-year-old Fnnish mind). And later when the irregular verbs (grammar) started it was mind numbing study by heart for hours and weeks. Just about everything is grammar, I had whole grammar books for different languages, also for English.

And when Swedish and German started the "ridiculous" masculine-feminine division of words (grammar) just about killed me. You see I am not a friend of grammar, and rules are everywhere also in English.

Rosamunda
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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by Rosamunda » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:13 pm

EP wrote: On our first lesson (I think) we learned about ARTICLES a and the (those are grammar) and I thought that they are SOOOO needless. We learned that verbs in 3rd singular have to have S after them (that is grammar, again totally needless in an 11-year-old Finnish mind). And later when the irregular verbs (grammar) started it was mind numbing study by heart for hours and weeks.
Sure, articles are grammar!!! But what are the RULES? That's what I am trying to extract from everyone - I'm interested to find out which RULES people were taught and/or remember from their English lessons.

So, we have one more rule :

- Verbs (IN THE PRESENT TENSE) take an -s in the 3rd person singular (NB except for modals: can, will, would, could, may, might, should, shall etc)

Kristina2
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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by Kristina2 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:28 pm

Hi. We moved to Finland after our oldest did Year 1 in the UK. When we moved here it was decided that he would go into second year. He is a native Finnish speaker. He has a January birthday so he is only a half year behind his classmates. He didnt struggle socially and kept up reasonably well in his studies. By year 3 he was one of the top in his class. I know each child is different but we had a positive experience and had little issues with integration. Good luck and do what you can to build a good relationship with teacher.

Aino
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:57 am

Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by Aino » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:30 pm

Just a quick hi to say thank you for all your comments and help. My son has started at Tähtiniitty bilingual class and seems very happy. We need to work on his Finnish but I'm confident that it will become stronger through friends, reading books and just living in Finland.

Tiwaz
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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by Tiwaz » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:52 pm

Aino wrote:Just a quick hi to say thank you for all your comments and help. My son has started at Tähtiniitty bilingual class and seems very happy. We need to work on his Finnish but I'm confident that it will become stronger through friends, reading books and just living in Finland.
What language he and his friends speak when together? That is going to be essential for you to take into account.
Same as choosing books for him to read.

If your family does not have Finnish used inside the family extensively, there is a chance that friends and books will gravitate towards English. As in, speaking English with buddies, preferring to read books in English.

And before you notice, he is past his prime age of language learning and you are in same situation as Penny here with her older kids.

Just saying that you might want to pay attention to these things and not taking anything for granted.

Aino
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:57 am

Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by Aino » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:41 pm

Thanks for the tip. I'm actually surprised how much English you hear in Finland, mainly on TV of course. My son speaks Finnish with his class mates during breaks (and in the afternoon club) which is good but I do acknowledge the fact that we have to put a lot of effort into finding a better balance. So it's Harry Potter in Finnish from now on. Luckily the teacher are very good and are providing a lot of support. Also, my younger son (5) goes to a Finnish Päiväkoti so time will tell if they start speaking Finnish to each other in a few months.

estherk
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Re: Grade 1 after Year2 in UK?

Post by estherk » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:18 am

My daughter at Komeetta school speaks Finnish with her class mates at break time and lunch, I wish they would speak English! If your boys are speaking English together then let them that's the language they have learnt together while growing up, it won't effect their Finnish I'm sure. My 3 always use Finnish together and I know that won't change even if we move to the UK :)


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