finnish gerunds (those -ing verbs)
Re: finnish gerunds (those -ing verbs)
What I just said is another reason I think there's too much early emphasis on acquiring vocabulary. (And I made the same damned mistake myself.) I think it's better to have a small vocabulary and use it to gain mastery of these frequently occurring verb forms that are often left far too late in traditional coursework. Even if you don't have to use in your own speech the grammatical "shortcut" formulations common in Finnish, you do need to understand them very early if you hope to comprehend the everyday speech and newspaper material around you and to further your mastery of Finnish through them. In the long term, that's really the fastest path to building vocabulary.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.
Re: finnish gerunds (those -ing verbs)
Rob, Korpela has a good article from 2002, updated this year.
On Proper Usage Of The Local Case System In Finnish
I realize it's still a heavy slog for you at this point, though it sometimes looks like you are learning quite fast.
But if you scroll down to the only table in the article, you can see his suggestion to switch to referring to the cases by model, and in particular by using forms of kuka. At first that seems an odd choice, but it was immediately apparent to me (and he justifies his choice by pointing out) that by using kenessä kenestä keneen kenellä keneltä and kenelle, you avoid the specialized meanings that have evolved for various forms of mikä and other possible candidates for model-word. I think it is an excellent idea for classroom instruction and associated materials. I had already started moving in that direction (with a less suitable model word) in my own materials.
Since it's axiomatic to me that a goal of studying Finnish is to begin thinking in Finnish (about the language and about the content one discusses), that's why I emphasize getting away from the Latin terms. Clearly it is better implantation and reinforcement, in my view of teaching a language, to talk about tulosija when doing examples with the verb tulla than to talk about a thinly Finnishized (merely transliterated, really) Latin word. Beyond that I am convinced it is simply more productive in the creation of neural pathways to use a model word like keneltä to talk about situations than even to use the descriptive Finnish-language case name. There is still the problem, in Korpela's suggestion of kuka, that you can create confusion about which case to use specifically with kuka in a given context. You might be talking about a context where you want the kenestä case and yet if there were truly a person involved the correct choice would be keneltä. So I'm not fully persuaded that kuka is the way to go but I agree 100% with the motivation for doing something like that. And it's encouraging to see support for my point of view.
Mistä ostit/sait autosi? BUT keneltä ostit/sait autosi?
It would be awkward to use either word (mikä/kuka) as a model in naming the case to use with the other in this context.
Anyway, since you like translation exercises, here is a quote from Korpela's essay:
On Proper Usage Of The Local Case System In Finnish
I realize it's still a heavy slog for you at this point, though it sometimes looks like you are learning quite fast.
But if you scroll down to the only table in the article, you can see his suggestion to switch to referring to the cases by model, and in particular by using forms of kuka. At first that seems an odd choice, but it was immediately apparent to me (and he justifies his choice by pointing out) that by using kenessä kenestä keneen kenellä keneltä and kenelle, you avoid the specialized meanings that have evolved for various forms of mikä and other possible candidates for model-word. I think it is an excellent idea for classroom instruction and associated materials. I had already started moving in that direction (with a less suitable model word) in my own materials.
Since it's axiomatic to me that a goal of studying Finnish is to begin thinking in Finnish (about the language and about the content one discusses), that's why I emphasize getting away from the Latin terms. Clearly it is better implantation and reinforcement, in my view of teaching a language, to talk about tulosija when doing examples with the verb tulla than to talk about a thinly Finnishized (merely transliterated, really) Latin word. Beyond that I am convinced it is simply more productive in the creation of neural pathways to use a model word like keneltä to talk about situations than even to use the descriptive Finnish-language case name. There is still the problem, in Korpela's suggestion of kuka, that you can create confusion about which case to use specifically with kuka in a given context. You might be talking about a context where you want the kenestä case and yet if there were truly a person involved the correct choice would be keneltä. So I'm not fully persuaded that kuka is the way to go but I agree 100% with the motivation for doing something like that. And it's encouraging to see support for my point of view.
Mistä ostit/sait autosi? BUT keneltä ostit/sait autosi?
It would be awkward to use either word (mikä/kuka) as a model in naming the case to use with the other in this context.
Anyway, since you like translation exercises, here is a quote from Korpela's essay:
No "trick sentences" here, just one with a rather stretched-out "-n mukaan" construct.Suomen kielessä on luonnollista sanoa "yliopistossa", ellei sitten tarkoiteta yliopiston seutua, esimerkiksi kampusta. Mutta ruotsin ilmaisun "vid universitet" ja nykyisin myös englannin ilmaisun "at the university" mukaan sanotaan "yliopistolla", vaikka tarkoitetaan yliopistossa opiskelemista tai työskentelemistä. Sisäsijojen välttelyn syynä on ehkä jossain määrin se, että sisäsijojen ajatellaan vievän ajatukset liiaksi rakennuksiin ja fyysiseen tilaan, vaikka tarkoitetaan jotain käsitteellisempää. Mutta ilman vierasta vaikutusta olisi tuskin ruvettu pitämään ulkosijoja näissä asioissa hienompina kuin sisäsijoja.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.