Kindergarten sleeping a HUGE problem :(

[AldenG]

I only know the daycare system from my own home country and that one is a lot better compared to this one. Just makes me want to go back home. I don't feel anything is better in Finland except housing benefits. That's the only thing that is -better-. Even the healthcare system is not better than at home

What are some of the other ways that daycare is better at home? And how is the healthcare system better there?

[AnnikaL]

Of course it should be possible (not easy but possible) to change the routine so that your daughter is sleeping earlier. If you can't change things at daycare then this could be the thing to do.

But as with all things to do with children, there's no one right answer to get that to work.

Finding what would work for your daughter would mean choosing an approach and sticking with it consistently until you're certain it doesn't work, and then picking another approach... and so on. I changed my daughters sleep pattern in the opposite direction over time (I'd say a month).

[lusi]

No, the resting time is not for the staff to have a break! I work in a daycare facility. Staff has plenty to do while the kids are resting. There is endless cleaning, organizing, planning and preparation, meetings, report writing, etc.
We do have resting time, but children are not required to sleep. They are required to relax quietly, listen to a story and some quiet music. If they fall asleep, they can sleep until they wake up. After 45 minutes to an hour, those that are not sleeping are taken to another room for quiet playtime. Our staff respects the wishes of parents. If a parent says to only let their child sleep for 30 minutes, then we wake them up. Every family and every child is different. And for some kids, the daycare hours are very, very long....8 or 9+ hours. Some parents actually want their kids to sleep, so that they can have quality time together at home, rather than to have an overly tired, cranky child who goes to bed very early.

[Rosamunda]

The situation now is so that the 4 year old doesnt go to bed and also has developed huge problems around this, she doesn't sleep in her room anymore, sleeps on a mattress in our room, but that's sometimes not enough and she needs to sleep in our bed (and there's no space in there after I go to bed with the small one). I move her to the mattress on the floor, and she usually wakes up because of that and cries for a LONG time. She wants to have the door open and lights on, all resulting in her not falling asleep. But if I close the lights or the door, she cries (even for hours) until they are opened again.

I'm no psychologist but IMHO this is nothing to do with the nap at daycare. Well, not much.

If she hasn't slept for ten hours or more, then the crying is because she IS tired - but she doesn't want to go to sleep.
Why don't you just keep her at home for a few weeks?

[Ellah]

The situation now is so that the 4 year old doesnt go to bed and also has developed huge problems around this, she doesn't sleep in her room anymore, sleeps on a mattress in our room, but that's sometimes not enough and she needs to sleep in our bed (and there's no space in there after I go to bed with the small one). I move her to the mattress on the floor, and she usually wakes up because of that and cries for a LONG time. She wants to have the door open and lights on, all resulting in her not falling asleep. But if I close the lights or the door, she cries (even for hours) until they are opened again.

I'm no psychologist but IMHO this is nothing to do with the nap at daycare. Well, not much.

If she hasn't slept for ten hours or more, then the crying is because she IS tired - but she doesn't want to go to sleep.
Why don't you just keep her at home for a few weeks?

I am actually going home next friday and I will be there for 1.5 month. Just taking a time off from everything. My initial post was written to check if this is a common problem in kindergartens here and how the parents like this.

[Ellah]

I only know the daycare system from my own home country and that one is a lot better compared to this one. Just makes me want to go back home. I don't feel anything is better in Finland except housing benefits. That's the only thing that is -better-. Even the healthcare system is not better than at home

What are some of the other ways that daycare is better at home? And how is the healthcare system better there?

Well. Daycare is so that no one complains if I bring my child at 9 or 10 even if she has a place from 8 (here they moan and complain about it if we dont bring her at the right time) they also don't care if I pick the kid up earlier without a notice (while they would also complain here)
There is a plan how each and every kid is supposed to sleep. If I ask that my kid does not get to sleep, they don't put it down for a nap, but allow them to read or color or some calm activity. It's actually NOT a standard that they go to sleep. Only the smallest ones. If I do want my kid to sleep they put it to sleep. They do exactly what the parents want to.
Everytime I picked my daughter up, there was a paper hanging wich read how all the kids had been eating and how long they slept. So I didn't have to chase personnel around to ask (and here usually no one knows anything and they point at each other)
I dont have to give it to the daycare staff on paper that I want to know how they day went. Here they just don't want to answer me about anything unless I order a meeting, and tell them I want to know this information.

Healthcare system:
I have my own "home doctor" (don't know the english word for it). When I want to, I can get an appointment with the doctor and talk to him. Here I have to order an appointment, see a nurse who then decides if I can see a doctor or not.
My Neuvola at home has an information desk, I can call there at any hour to either order an appointment or ask my nurse to call me. Here I can only call my nurse, between 11 and 12 and if I miss that. I just can't contact them at all.
One time I had to see a doctor at nevuola, but I didn't know what room to go. But there is no information desk, so I had no idea what to do.
Everything related to child birth is for FREE where I come from. They say it's for free here. But it's not. I had to meet doctors a few times, and each time costed me around 30 euros.
If childbirth goes well, you can go home after a few hours and a nurse will come visit you. If it doesnt go well, you stay at the hospital for a while. Free of charge.
Here we must stay at the hospital no matter what, for at least 2 or 3 days, no home care. And each day costs around 30 euros, bed and breakfast (I could have gone to a restaurant every day for less money those days. Instead of eating potato soup and some raisin slime)

These are just things on top of my head right now. But some things are better, some are worse in both countries

[onkko]

Of course you have to take in account that Ellah lived in country with booming economy and less people than in Helsinki and moved here just before it crashed badly. I ponder how iceland is doing now and can it afford all that.

[EP]

Back to the original post. Yes, I have had exactly the same problem. But that was 30+ years ago. I thought things would have changed in all daycares and not just some. Certainly enough time has gone by to make changes.

[Ellah]

Cory- I know the daycare system here is one of the best, I only know the daycare system from my own home country and that one is a lot better compared to this one. Just makes me want to go back home. I don't feel anything is better in Finland except housing benefits. That's the only thing that is -better-. Even the healthcare system is not better than at home

Comparing apples and bananas me thinks and sounds abit like some kind of rebound (back?) into culture shock?

Voi, voi.

"Don't come with a complaint and a problem, come with a solution".

Everything's different but it may still be a super idea that you have a chat with someone?

Yea actually after I wrote this. I started thinking myself that this comparison is mostly some service related. I think I'm just super fuzzy about everything these days and you're quite right about the comparison of apples and bananas.
But it always helps to put it down in words for some reason, these things have been swirling around in my head for months now. But while writing this they became more organized and I see this clearer now.

[jas_rho]

If you are on leave how come your kid is in daycare?

[Mölkky-Fan]

I am just SO ANGRY for that. Seriously WHAT THE @#$%????? Crappy daycare system in this country!!! Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....
I just really don't understand, since this just MUST be a problem for so many families, why no one does anything about it?? Surely the parents of the kids outnumber the staff and after all it's our kids they are getting payed for taking care of. And since this is not like this in other countries. I really don't feel sorry about them not getting a 2 hour lunch break.

I'll have a cranky, screaming kid every night of the week.

I want my life back. Me and her dad are just angry almost every single evening, shouting at her, shouting at each other, shouting at the baby, the baby is screaming, 4 year old crying, Im crying, no one gets a rest. Everyone is angry, sad, annoyed with a headache. Mostly because of this stupid daycare center (there are other factors aswell like the baby coming along and stuff)

Sorry to say, but it sounds like you are looking in the wrong place for the cause of your problems. Every family has these problems, but not everyone reacts like this... your comments sound like those coming from a crazy person (just re-read above text). It appears that you need to do some work with anger management, and work on your relationship, see your doctor about depression etc first... when everything else is running well I would guess that you would see that the problem is just another little problem to deal with.

Maybe you should consider the following equation based on your comments:

Me and her dad are just angry almost every single evening, shouting at her, shouting at each other, shouting at the baby, the baby is screaming, 4 year old crying, Im crying, no one gets a rest. Everyone is angry, sad, annoyed with a headache.

=

cranky, screaming kid

[AldenG]

Maybe you should consider the following equation based on your comments:

Me and her dad are just angry almost every single evening, shouting at her, shouting at each other, shouting at the baby, the baby is screaming, 4 year old crying, Im crying, no one gets a rest. Everyone is angry, sad, annoyed with a headache.

=

cranky, screaming kid

I have to agree with Mölkky-Fan here. When you put it this way, you sound like a couple of the verge of breakdown. There's nothing normal about what you're describing. It's really self-destructive behavior you have to find a way to stop. You married each other among other reasons to help each other through times like these, not to cut the legs out from under each other.

I know if you watch some Finnish TV series you might think this is normal behavior but in real life there's nothing healthy or normal about it.

[AnnikaL]

Just sounds like normal stressed out sleep-deprived mother venting a bit and over-exaggerating into the bargain.

In any case, I wouldn't care to start judging someone too much or thinking that I know about their life and can solve all their problems on the basis of a few forum posts. Noone is perfect, and family life is complex.

[EP]

Just sounds like normal stressed out sleep-deprived mother venting a bit and over-exaggerating into the bargain.

Those are my thoughts, too. People should not judge before they know what it feels like to live with max 2 hours continuous sleep for a year. Sleep 20 minutes, be awake 30 minutes, sleep one hour, be awake 30 minutes, sleep 20 minutes, be awake 20 minutes.. On and on for months and months in a row, without exception. In the end you don´t even know how to sleep. I think that is one form of torture used in some places. Takes a toll on any person or any marriage.

[AldenG]

Well I know all too well that there are families in which it is "normal" for to have mom and dad "angry almost every single evening, shouting at her, shouting at each other, shouting at the baby, the baby is screaming, 4 year old crying, . . . crying, no one gets a rest . . . Everyone is angry, sad, annoyed with a headache . . ." I've never had to live around that, but for various reasons I see more than the usual quota of people who do. And if that's the reality one grew up with or currently lives in, I know it can sound strange to hear people say that it's not inevitable and ordinary.

If the description is just a lot of exaggeration, then that's one thing. But if the reality really is chronically like that, then there really is help available. That's not judging, that's reminding an over-stressed caregiver that there are alternatives and encouraging them to want and expect a better quality of life. If you think it's a bunch of guys ganging up on and condemning a woman, you should keep in mind that in such situations, the men are usually the bigger shouters -- and eventually hitters, breakers of things, and worse. Too many women put up with that kind of everyday reality because their mothers did and so they grew up to to think it's only . . . normal. And the cycle continues.