Cheap Breadmakers at Myyrmäki!

[Rosamunda]

Yes, I recently discovered the Benviva range and it is very good. I was advised against using too much Rice milk when Stefan was very small because the flavour can give children a "sweet-tooth" ie a liking for everything sweet and sugary. Stefan was on Nutramigen (disgusting stuff) until he was about 7 years old - just because that had become his comfort drink - he had long outgrown it's nutritional value. He is very scared about drinking/eating anything that looks dairy (eg Tofu yoghurts and ice-cream) so I don't push them on him. But we did try the new Tofu ice-cream cornets (the ones that look like Cornettos ????) - he didn't like them but the other two thought they were delish. He prefers Pappagallo sorbets which are the only ones which DON'T contain milk proteins and they taste sooo good (we buy direct from the factory in Suomenoja not far from here). He takes a calcium tablet every morning and his size and weight are good for his age. We did consult a dietician a few years back just to check we were on the right track, that session was really useful. Overall I think he has a healthier diet than most kids his age, simply because he has to steer clear of most processed foods and his animal fat in-take in quite low.

[strawberry]

Yeah, it's all pretty tricky isn't it? So, Stefan's still pretty badly allergic to dairy products at his age? Ho-hum... Only, I'm living in hope, as it's s u p p o s e d to pass early on but it does not look like it in this household either... Mine is 22 months today ( ) and still allergic to all the same stuff as before. Except I think egg has to be added to the list - now that makes things easier, tsk! Anyway, I hear what you say and it's true rice milk IS very sweet... And you're right, of course. Our problem is that my toddler refuses to drink ANYTHING but water, partly my own fault, I suppose... He never took to any soya baby formula, it was indeed disgusting! I had no energy to fight it at the time (on my own with the three), so eneded up breastfeeding him until he was approx. 14-15 mths old... Of course he wouldn't take anything else after that... Otherwise it's not a problem, what better than water but recently he had very high temperature and fluid intake was paramount but water alone does not really do the trick... He refuses all manners of juice etc. Well, it'll pass, I guess. At the moment our problem is that I'd like to offer him all the same as his brothers (it would be so important at his age!) and he keeps asking for the same things - but no can do. Quite frankly milk allergy I could deal with but that combined with domestic cereals and now it seems egg, too, is getting a little too much... I really hope things will improve.

Those tofu cones would be a hit with us, too, but they're too expensive for the other two who can eat "ordinary" stuff! My little one can't have them as the glucose syrup used in them is wheat based... But, we live in hope!

Anyway, good luck with your hunt for the bread maker - I've been wondering if I ought to get one, too, to make naturally gluten-free bread... We'll see. And, have a good trip to the UK!

[Rosamunda]

Only, I'm living in hope, as it's s u p p o s e d to pass early on but it does not look like it in this household either... Mine is 22 months today ( ) and still allergic to all the same stuff as before.

There is plenty of time.... we were only told that his milk allergy would probably be forever when Stefan was IIRC 6 years old. I have , in a book somewhere (in French though), a graph with a curve that shows how many kids grow out of milk allergy and at which age (if u c what I mean). Basically the older you get the less likely you are to lose it (milk protein allergy), so as he is now nearly 11, the chances of "growing out" of it are probably less than 5%. Also we know he is allergic to caseine (one of the many, many milk proteins, his RAST tests were done at the Institut Pasteur in Paris and someone was studying milk protein allergies at that time so we had some very detailed tests done) and I believe that allergy is harder to shift than the regular alpha/beta protein allergies????? What I DO remember is that a 100% exclusion diet is absolutely essential to stand the best chances of losing the allergy.

The Nutramigen "milk" replacement was NOT a soja based product but a hydrolysat.... don't ask me what that is, but I know it is milk based and treated in some way. It was outrageously expensive and we had to pay for it ourselves (over 100 euro a month - 10 years ago ) but Stefan was - at that time - also allergic to soja milk. (Which happens a lot when kids are put on to soja formula after reacting to cows milk). He grew out of his egg allergy and I can now make cakes using egg but we avoid custards, omelettes etc where the egg is not "baked".

I wouldn't worry about yours only wanting to drink water. That is great! And so healthy (unless you live in Riihimäki ).

What do you mean by "domestic" cereals.... is it everything with gluten (oats, barley, wheat etc)? IS it a real allergy or an intolerance? That is a tough one to deal with (like peanuts..... I am so glad I don't have to deal with that)

Anyway I'd rather be in Finland when it comes to kids and allergies. In France, Stefan was forced to eat on his own in school and I had to supply all his meals as the municipality refused to assume responsability for any "extra-curricular" activities which included meals, school trips, etc etc..

[Rosamunda]

2 months ago, it came back. YIKES! We know he's not had peanuts (...)
Cory

It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to be sure that your son has not had peanuts. They are in everything (any product with "kasviöljy" on the label may contain peanut) and cross contamination can occur on any production line. In Paris I was an active member of an association of parents of children with allergies and I really felt sorry for the ones with severe peanut allergies.... feeding their kids was a total nightmare. Our association ´was fighting for improved labelling of food products but it was "us" against "them" (a few parents against the giants of the food industry AND the government)

Anyway, it might be worth having the tests again. The results are not 100% infallible. We were once told Stefan had grown out of his milk allergy...

Stefan still has eczema (worse since we have been up here) but always in the same places (inside of elbows and behind the ears) but we just try and live with that. I'm not sure we "want" to discover any new food allergies

[Hank W.]

Don't know what to say - except have you been to the special "allergiasairaala" in Helsinki? They are the specialists in these. I went there for some needle treatment when I was a kid and I am traumatized with nurses...

I was as allergic as can imagine as a kid, but not to eggs or milk or stuff like that. Hayfever -any plant triggered it. I was tomato-eyed all spring. I could not wear anything but totally non-colored underwear as a kid or I'd get eczema, my feet were such you know the colored stripes on white tennis socks - I got a rash-ring out of them... anything fresh vegetable made me go sick. I was reportedly picky with my food, and still am. If its "fresh" I get really itchy from nuts and apples and peas, won't even imagine any "raaste" like carrots. However after they're cooked I can eat say peanut butter or satay sauce, but not nut chocklate. People who put apple in the potato sallad get death threats from me. So there is some hope in the horizon. However my dad created an allergy to peas and veggies on his old age. Had something to do with his medication, so I guess it is to do with balances. Dunno, I only know a cat and fresh grass makes me itch and get a rash even now, haven't tried boiling

So contact the "allergiasairaala" and resources, KELA compensates some stuff for childrens allergies I think. Of course they won't tell it to you, you have to know yourself.

[strawberry]

quote[i]The Nutramigen "milk" replacement was NOT a soja based product but a hydrolysat.... don't ask me what that is, but I know it is milk based and treated in some way. It was outrageously expensive and we had to pay for it ourselves (over 100 euro a month - 10 years ago ) but Stefan was - at that time - also allergic to soja milk. (Which happens a lot when kids are put on to soja formula after reacting to cows milk). quote

Yes, the very reason why I wasn't so keen to push that stuff on my babe since he didn't like it... At least now it seems he's ok with soya, and that is great! Not only nutritious but soya lecithin would be another nightmare to avoid...

Thank you, Penelope, so much for all the info!! You really have had to study all this stuff, haven't you...? I know exactly how it is... Thank goodness for the Internet and libraries! But the thing is, we do need to know a lot before going to the doctor's, for example, as they seem to know relatively little!! (BTW, is Stefan an average size for his age? My toddler is a bit below average, unlike his brothers who are a bit above average - can't help wondering if it's this milk allergy and/or other allergies...)

2 months ago, it came back. YIKES! We know he's not had peanuts (...)
Cory

It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to be sure that your son has not had peanuts.

Anyway, it might be worth having the tests again. The results are not 100% infallible. We were once told Stefan had grown out of his milk allergy...

Yup, yup... This is soooo true. When I visited the UK in the summer, I got some "Abidec" vitamin drops for my toddler, as here you need a prescription for the "baby vitmins", and was just about to give him a dose when I read the label again and, lo and behold, it contains "peanut oil"!! Now, that is really clever, as the peanut allergy's on the rise in the UK, too... (My 9-yr-old's allergic to them, too...)

Yeah, why not ask if you can have some tests redone, Cory? Especially at the time you may want/need to consider a nursery place of sorts, they do comply, unlike many other countries (cannot imagine what all that was like, Penny... Phew!! ), pretty well with different dietary requirements but need to presented with a dr's note... But it really must be extra hard all of a sudden to say to a 5-yr-old he can't have any wheat...! At least my toddler has never tasted it (did get it in my milk until we realised...) I suggest testing (although sometimes the allergy does not show up in any of the tests!) because if it IS wheat allergy, albeit not severe, the best treatment, as Penelope points out, is to exclude it 100%. Unfortunately it is very difficult to avoid wheat protein... As I said before, many glucose syrups, for example, are wheat based. Almost all of the hams, sausages and all manners of sandwich stuff, for example, contain either glucose (no origin specified...) and/or modified starch and the fact is that more often than not it's probably wheat based as wheat is massproduced all over the world and there's a surplus of it everywhere... The above-mentioned tofu cones, for example, are gluten-free but NOT wheat-free if you see what I mean? Just one example of billions...

However, the bummer with allergies is that you cannot test for them 100%, ever... Like our mate Hank, things are extremely labile and the tendency shifts from one thing to another constantly... It does stay with you all your life, it just alters with time. I'm like Hank, used to go through the desensitisation project for 4 winters as a kid and it was of enormous help!! The effect is supposed to last for up to ten years but I think I still benefit from the treatment - it's like it just disrupted a process of sorts... However, have since then (as an adult) developed extreme allergy to horses and only have to look at one when I get an asthma attack... So, in other words, the life of an allergic person is forever taking things slowly and being extremely cautious with food etc. Yup, they call us picky, but hey, it's nice to be alive...!!

But, on the whole, I completely agree that having a child with allergies in Finland is a breeze compared to many other places... Yet, things seem to be changing: for example in the UK the entire labelling system has developed a lot since I lived there some five years ago. In fact, it is far easier to go shopping there than it is in Finland now, and the ranges seem better (even the gluten-free bread seemed to taste better! ). But, I'm certain it's still easier in the Finnish nurseries etc...

[Rosamunda]

Yup, yup... This is soooo true. When I visited the UK in the summer, I got some "Abidec" vitamin drops for my toddler, as here you need a prescription for the "baby vitmins", and was just about to give him a dose when I read the label again and, lo and behold, it contains "peanut oil"!! Now, that is really clever, as the peanut allergy's on the rise in the UK, too... (My 9-yr-old's allergic to them, too...)

Yes, I remember being told to stop those vitamin drops too. Some of the vaccines were a problem too (the mumps, measles, rubella is a live vaccine I believe, cultured on eggs). Our biggest scare was when he caught chicken-pox. As luck would have it his eczema was really bad then and he was having cortisone cream over his whole body twice a day. The chickenpox virus is a form of herpes which thrives on cortisone.... he was covered from head to toe in sores and the virus got inside his body. To cut a long story short, if it hadn't been for a massive dose of Zovirax....

[Rosamunda]

So, changing the subect AGAIN (... who cares ) where do you buy organic meat?????

My husband has recently started hunting so I have a couple of roe deer in the freezer and we have grazed our own sheep (not this year though as we were away all summer) but it is really diffficult to find organic meat in the supermarkets. In fact the local Citymarket has none, Sesto rarely has any and Prisma only sells sausages and marinated bits of ???? It's too far to Stockmann and Hakeniemi (I go sometimes but not every week). I would love to find a good source of organic chicken (I haven't tasted a "real" chicken in at least 3 years!!!!) yet organic eggs can be found everywhere..... If the eggs are for sale, the chickens must be somewhere???

[strawberry]

If the eggs are for sale, the chickens must be somewhere???

LOL!! But your problem there may well be the different types of farming procedures and subsidies (EU rules in parts, too) etc. I.e. egg-laying chickens are different from the "meat-variety", if you see whot I mean? But, I suggest you try and contact some farms... I remember reading about direct farm sales even somewhere nearby the capital region = here down south. Cannot remember where exactly but there must be more than one organic farms, as people buy the stuff direct from them. IIRC, some of them even deliver! Now, you might be able to buy some chooks etc., too? (At least "under the counter"?? )

Having said all that, Finnish meat on the whole is almost organic compared to a lot of other countries... Honest. I happen to know this having done some research due to a project I had... We keep the hormones, antimicrobials etc. to a very minimum, partly due to us being lucky with our remote geographical location and hence relatively few animal diseases + fairly stringent monitoring and control systems as well as compliance to them. Could be one reason why organic meat is not so popular?? However, I do believe in organic produce and do agree that it is not only better for you but for the nature, at least to an extent (it does have its downsides, too, but so has everything else). Of course it's also a case of demand and supply = not enough of it and perhaps too expensive, so people don't buy. BTW, always remember to be careful with kitchen hygiene particularly with organic and game produce...

The doctor mentioned that many people who come from the south western regions of Canada ( northern rain-forest vegetation) find the northern boreal forests (with a high concentration of birch)in the northern regions (as it is in Finland) literally poisoneous.

Now this was really interesting...!! Never realised it could be possible. So, it may not be just our genes, then.... Hmmm.

PS: Penelope, try doing a google search for "Luomutilat", for example? Or perhaps even "Luomutilat Etelä-Suomessa"...

[strawberry]

We once got some moose meat from a neighbour who shot the moose about 10 kms from a recycling plant. Another member of the hunting team had the meat analyzed and the meat thrown away. Don't remember what they analyzed for but it wouldn't have passed the inspection for shop sales.

This was not necessarily due to toxic waste etc. (always a possibilty, though) but the mere fact that game meat is almost always uninspected and may carry diseases which would indeed not pass normal meat inspection... For example bear hunters have a tradition whereby one should eat some meat raw and cases of botulism have been diagnosed as a result... Like I said, one never knows (these animals may graze elsewhere, too, like across the eastern border where rabies etc. is much more common as well as other animal diseases we have been lucky to be spared from thus far) and hygiene whilst handling and cooking the meat is of utmost essence. Also, due to the natural breeding methods, organic chicken and eggs, for example, are more likely to carry salmonella than the mass-produced ones - for obvious reasons. Then again, who knows, a bit more salmonella and other relatively harmless bugs and we might have less of these blasted allergies!

[sds]

Now, back to the original topic.

I bought one of those bread machines (it was 39 euros in Leppävaara Citymarket - although, strangely, the price was marked on the sign as 49 euros).

The question is, can anyone tell me how on earth to make a decent loaf of bread in the thing? My five loaves thus far have ALL been miserable failures. You can see the recipes I have used, and pictures of the results here:
http://www.stephensykes.com/blog_perm.html?99

I even followed the recipe from the instruction manual to the letter. And I used the measuring cup and spoon that came with the unit.

Help!

Stephen

[Rosamunda]

Sounds like you are doing everything right....

Are you using fresh or dried yeast?

Check the sell-by/use-by date on your yeast packet and maybe try using a different brand. I don't (yet) have a machine (but am intending to) the only floppy loaves I have (manually) produced were the result of a dodgy yeast packet. Now I use fresh yeast as it is available in all the supermarkets here.

You need Cory....

[sds]

Are you using fresh or dried yeast?

Check the sell-by/use-by date on your yeast packet and maybe try using a different brand. I don't (yet) have a machine (but am intending to) the only floppy loaves I have (manually) produced were the result of a dodgy yeast packet. Now I use fresh yeast as it is available in all the supermarkets here.

The recipes call for dried yeast, and that's what I put in. With my later loaves, it seems that they do rise, but too fast so they collapse again. Maybe there is too much yeast?

Or maybe there is something awry with the machine? Has anyone used this exact machine successfully?

[khu]

Maybe you should just try making bread in an oven

[sds]

3 dl water, 30 ml oil, 10 ml sugar, 5 ml salt, 8 dl white flour, 7.5 ml dry yeast.

Firstly, put water and oil in the pan. Then add the sugar and salt. Pile in the flour. Make an indentation in the top of the heap of flour with your finger and pour in the yeast. Close the lid, I like the "light" colour of my bread and choose "normal" cycle. Ta da. Perfect bread.

Thanks for the advice! Yes, it seems the recipe quantities I had are quite different. I was putting the ingredients in in the right order, so that wasn't the problem.

For "plain" flour, is it ok to use this "hiivaleipäjauho" I have?

Stephen