divorce and fighting for child custody

[rinso]

since he has his own lawyer.

So two lawyers Their main purpose is to keep each other busy.
Convince your husband that letting the lawyers fight will only increase the costs, but not improve the result.
Try to find a solution where you're both comfortable with.

[sophye]

My husband left me suddenly, when our baby boy was just 5 weeks old. The way the separation happens, does not count. Because my husband just moved away and I stayed with the baby, he had actually no chance of getting the primary custody. If the kids live with you, it would have to be a really good reason "to change the primary caretaker".

I didn't give the baby to the father in the beginning at all. I told he can come an visit as much as he wants, but I didn't think it's appropriate to take a little baby away from the caretaker for a long time. When the baby was 6 months, he started to visit dad's place 4 hours at a time, two times a week. This decision was made in the court, by us parents. We came in to an agreement about the meetings all the way until he 18 months. Then we will see how things go and try to agree further. Now, being 12 months, our boy spends 6 hours at dad's place, twice a week. In two months he will start to go and spend one night every two weeks. An agreement made during the court process is as valid as the court's decision.

Joint custody is the primary way to solve the custody in finland. You have to have a really good reason to not to end up in joint custody. I tried to get the custody alone, because we could not agree about things concerning the child. The only way to agree was that I do what he says. We really had majure disagreements on the child's caretaking, health, day care options, living...I as well have a fear of him kidnapping the child to his home country, I'm finnish and he is not. The court ended up in joint custody, because we already showed some agreeing with the meetings, so they didn't think agreeing is impossible. Luckily our situation has since improved and we can quite well be parents together and make decisions.

I have heard that the court decision about the meetings can be based on the history as well. If you already have some kind of rutine in it and it seems to work, they will not change it. One week/ one week system is not usually recommended with small kids, because it might be confusing and the child might feel unsafe, not really having a home anywhere. Of course situations are different, as well as kids are. Sharing the living of the kids 50/50 as well needs a lot of co-operation and good communication from the parents.

What ever you do, don't thread with the kidnapping, or don't even talk about it, it might cost you your kids. I myself was surprised that anything can be presented in the court and it's your job to prove it right or wrong. My ex-husband spoke such things about me that I was not prepared. He twisted everything around and made up things, and I should have been able to prove them wrong. How do you prove what happened in a private conversation? I was just quiet, I didn't feel like fighting anymore or starting to do the same, since I felt how much it hurts.

Well, luckily we are fine now. Still afraid of loosing my boy, since the dad has made couple of jokes about not returning him. I'm avoiding all conflicts so that at least I don't push him to take it to the extreme. I don't think this kind of father has any rights to the child, but I do think the child has the right to both parents. That's why I'm just holding on to provide what I think is truly best for my boy, having a good relationship with his father too.

Good luck and all the best for you!

[libre]

thank you, sophye,
your experience and advice helps me to understand my situation more clear.
I was in a shock and I could not think at all in the begining so my kids are already in one-week system. I understand I need to have very good reason to change it.

I've actually noticed some unstableness in my 7 years old weeks after one week system has been started, but my ex says there's nothing different, and who else can tell.

you talk about kidnapping like I think I would do, but I don't think such way of separating one of the parents is good at all, for my kids (especially for my 7 years old) and I actually had many chances before I could do (and its legal in my country) but I never did. My ex, on the other hand, brought whole family back to Finland twice in our marriage, and immediately announced divorce. In both cases he kept his plan secret when we lived in my country.

I have heavy stone in my heart that I might need to leave my 12 months daughter, and my 7 year old son here and run away from finland if I don't want feel alone, if I want to be happy. However that cannot be done as I promissed my son I won't leave him ever and I don't want to. this is what you mean pushing somebody to extreme. I'm still holding on.

good luck to you, too.

[sophye]

What ever you do, don't thread with the kidnapping, or don't even talk about it, it might cost you your kids.

By this comment I mean that don't really talk about it in public. I understood that you would not do it, but just saying out the word "kidnap" might turn against you. This might sound silly, but weird things can be used against you. Words can be twisted around etc.

If you think this one week system might harm your kids, you can still stop it. 12 months old is really young for that. You can tell that you have tried it now and it didn't feel good and right. I think the court cannot force that option. Ask more from your lawyer. (I don't know if you have checked if you could get a free or cheap legal aid (http://www.oikeus.fi/8108.htm), you can get that for a private lawyer as well. At least the maintenance payment is something where your kids are the claimants and they could get the legal aid?)

You should ask from your lawyer if you could have a chance to get the single custody and get a possibility to move back to your home country, because your family and friends are there and of course you need help and support as well. The kids can still meet their father regurlarly. I hope you can hold on so on that you will never have to leave your kids. Life can be difficult, but try to stay positive and find support. I really understand your pain in this.

[Flossy1978]

Don't do every other week.

I've been advised by a therapist that's not good for children, especially very small children like yours. Imagine your baby being taken from his/her mum for a week at a time. Can you imagine how awful it would be for the poor child or any children?

Fight for the every other weekend sharing. It is most important children of divorce are made to feel like they have a home which is theirs. That they have as stable a life as possible.

Is your ex only wanting every other week because he thinks he doesn't have to pay child support? If that's the case, he'll still have to pay.

It's a sad situation for your children. They haven't done anything to cause this and you both should sit down and try to see what it must be like for them. Your ex isn't putting the childrens' needs first, but his own. Nothing new there. Goodluck!

[libre]

Thanks Sophye and Flossy.
I agree. Moving children one house to other every week, seems to be more for parents than for children. For parents, you get both what you want. One week, you have plenty of time to do whatever you want, and you still get to see your kids. Divorce should also be much easier as it does not cause any maintenance money exchange.

I think my kids needs father still and I will let them meet him anyway as much as possible, but in the same time I strongly believe my kids needs a stable home and a stable care taker. I really would like him to understand this and take responsibility.

[Flossy1978]

Yes, of course children need to see their Fathers. This is the reason I pay a lot more money to live where I do, rather than having moved away to somewhere where I'd have a lot less expenses. I chose to waste my money doing this, because my child having a relationship with his Father was important to me. And because it was in no way my child's fault his parents couldn't be together. So I tried to make as little disruption to his life as possible. Ok, it was his Father who made the divorce, but I still thought of my child before anything else.

I think you should do what most other people do when dealing with young children and divorce, ever other weekend to the Father.

The therapists I was seeing for my son said it is better the children have less visitation, but when visiting make it for a longer time. Changing homes other week isn't the right way to do this, but every other weekend Friday to Sunday is. As the children of yours need to feel safe and have a real 'home' environment at their ages.

I don't know how the Father can justify taking a baby from the mother for a week at a time. Can you imagine the feelings that poor little child must go through every week changing homes? The child would lose any sense of security and being safe. Even for your older child it can cause emotional problems.

Fight with all you have to get every other weekend visitation. Your ex isn't seeing what it'd be like for his children. And what is his excuse for having them every other week anyway? The child support or what?

[Flossy1978]

And what do the couples do? Do they move all their personal stuff every week? I am not being sarcastic or anything, it's a real question. If a parent breaks stuff while in the childrens' home that week and all other things come into play. It'd be interesting to know.

[Xochiquetzal]

Something to think about: I am a child of divorce and stayed with mother during the week and father on most weekends. For me, as a young child, I treasured the time with my father as much as my mother. I would have lost out had my parents not agreed upon amicable visiting and changing homes. I am glad they chose visiting options.

[Flossy1978]

I couldn't do the option of staying one week in the house and then leaving for a week. I am not a selfish person. Afterall it was my ex who divorced me, yet it's been me who has only ever put our child first and has had to sacrifice what I want in life to keep my child in the life he knows. I don't expect a reward or anything for this. It's just what a good parent does. But I have to be selfish to a degree and would not be able to share a home with my ex and his wife.

As it is, my child only lives about 4km from his Father's home. So it's close he can ride his bike. Still, he spends most his time with me. We use to have it he went one night during the week and one night on the weekend to his Father, but my child has some issues and changing homes like this was causing problems. So now we do it every other weekend for a full weekend. If my child wants to see his Father more, he is welcome to ask, but he never asks and his Father never ever asks.

Divorce is difficult. There's so much stuff to take into consideration. But through it all, the child/children should always be thought of first. Afterall, it's NEVER a child's fault if a marriage breaks down.

[sophye]

I agree about the one week system, that it might be too hard for the kids. Yet, kids are different and so are parents, so I'm not here to judge anybody.

I have encountered a lot of critics about how I deal with the meetings of my son and his father. I have thought it through and I believe I am doing the best I can in providing my son a good and safe environment and possibility to know his dad. People are so different that I don't believe that there is only one right way to do it. In my case people have judging how I'm selfish since I don't let my son to spend more time with his dad and I don't always do as it would be thet best for the dad.

First, I'm letting my son visit dad as much as I think is ok for him to spend away from me (mom, the primary caretaker). I can choose myself what I think is a good time for my child. I have been reading a lot and consulting specialists about it and I base my desicion on this information and my son's character.

Second, I'm not a wonderwoman who can create a perfect environment for the kid to live despite the divorce. The divorce was never my choice, but I'm dealing with it the best way I can. I'm taking the best care of my son AND MYSELF. Sometimes I should maybe be different or act different, but I have to take care of myself too. It takes to to make it work in this case, and I'm doing as much as I can, not as much as it is possible. I could try to still make the dad happy and do everything as he suggests, but I really have to concentrate on my own life now. Taking care of myself and giving myself the opportunity to live a happy life is important for my son's wellfare too. Child goes first, but how would I be able to put him first, if I'm a complete mess myself?

Not really well expressed but I hope you get the point...

[libre]

I understand what you mean, sophye.
even the divorce was purely from my ex only, it sounds like awful thing to say if I say I have a right to be happy.
how come kids could be happy if mother is suffering all the time?

In my case, I moved here because of my ex's job, and unfortunately I 'm not Finnish, have no close friends, no family around, nor job based in Finland. Now I have no home to go back as my ex lives in our house with his girl friend. So I feel like no reason to continue living in Finland being lonely except for my kids.

Still I want to smile every morning to them when they wake up so they smile back to me and to others.

After 10 months of sadness, I finally made up my mind clearly that my priority is kids not myself, so ready to sacrifice my own happiness, my carrier if nessesary, but in the same time I think I need to keep finding the way that I feel happier somehow in given condition.

for my 12 months, she looks at me every time with 'why mummy leave me'-face when I leave. I believe she does that to my ex, too. I really hope this is not hurting her consciousness in security .

[ajdias]

In my case, I moved here because of my ex's job, and unfortunately I 'm not Finnish, have no close friends, no family around, nor job based in Finland. Now I have no home to go back as my ex lives in our house with his girl friend. So I feel like no reason to continue living in Finland being lonely except for my kids.

I think this was already mentioned but you should ask about legal help ( http://www.oikeus.fi/8852.htm ) ASAP, if you have no income or it falls under the average salary. Even if you have to pay part of the costs, legal aid caps how much lawyers will be able to charge (123 eur/h.) Not sure if all do, but many lawyers state regular prices and prices for recipients of help. You should def. talk to your lawyer, as some of the questions you brought forth here should have been answered by him or her.

[libre]

thanks ajdias,
I do have job and income, so I have private lawyer too. my employer does not have a office in Finland but they offered me a home based job (with traveling) when we moved back to Finland for my ex's job. This is one of the reason I don't have colleague around either.
Still this one year sucked all my money, and I still have to figure out how I can provide the stable, and happy home for my kids keeping my income with very high tax payment.

[Flossy1978]

I have a lawyer through the government system. I pay 20€ an hour. It's based on your income. Ok, my income use to fall within the national average, but in the last few years the average has gone up, but my income hasn't kept up LOL. I pay I think what must be the lowest sum possible. She's a decent lawyer.

You don't have to use a private lawyer. Why waste your money?

I, too, am alone in Finland without family. My work is not the mainstream of where I work and I really don't have any collegues. Those who I do speak to, I don't really have anything to do with them outside of work since my company got tight and no longer offers all the 'outside of work' parties and whatnot.

Maybe you could try the Lutheran Church? When I first was kicked out by my husband, a friend of mine contacted a social worker in the church and she came over to see me. You don't have to be Lutheran or belong to the church for them to help. I am for instance going to a thing with the church this weekend (camp for foreigners and their families). It's only 60€ for the whole weekend with food and activities and housing. The church can help you find some kind of social life if you want to make friends and have a life here. They aren't preachy either.

Then you could contact the social services if you feel you are having difficulties being alone with two children. They don't just work to steal your kids away from you. I've had a lot of positive help from them.

All you have to do it ask