Another Stupid Law

[DMC]

Same thing now that I moved to UK, if I got made redundant, they'd tell me here to pissoff

Are you sure about that? This says:
Benefits available for UK and EU Citizens
All EU/EEA and Swiss citizens who have the right to work in the UK are eligible to the same benefits as unemployed people from the UK:

Jobseeker's Allowance
Income Support
Housing Benefit
Council Tax benefit
Childcare Benefit

[Karhunkoski]

As for things being "fair" Same thing now that I moved to UK, if I got made redundant, they'd tell me here to pissoff

Nah, get yersen a munter n a bakers o brats. Yul be appy as larry, clearin 50k b'tween yas.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... style.html

Fit asa butcher's that bint, ellova rack, tad saggy mind, but what yus spect affer all dem greedy suckers

[Pursuivant]

Same thing now that I moved to UK, if I got made redundant, they'd tell me here to pissoff

Are you sure about that? This says:
Benefits available for UK and EU Citizens
All EU/EEA and Swiss citizens who have the right to work in the UK are eligible to the same benefits as unemployed people from the UK:

Ah, yes, now I do as its been over a year. But lets say this would have happened the first 3 months or first year. Proving you are a "habitual resident" would have been pretty tricky.

[Upphew]

The guy said me, he asked the trade union to return all the money he paid during last two years as unemployment fund with 10% interest rate, the lady nearly ran away from her office.....

So we're talking about 200e+interests. It is good to make a point, but that sum wouldn't make me too active.

[Upphew]

So we're talking about 200e+interests. It is good to make a point, but that sum wouldn't make me too active.

I guess the amount was 600+, still not so much, but it might just be a stupid way to confront as he was not happy about not getting the benefits

Either he was earning like a banshee or working in the wood and speciality or construction... see "liitetaulukko 3": http://www.finanssivalvonta.fi/fi/Tilas ... t_2010.pdf the -11 numbers are probably higher as the unemployment certainly didn't go down since -10.

[Pursuivant]

So we're talking about 200e+interests. It is good to make a point, but that sum wouldn't make me too active.

I guess the amount was 600+, still not so much, but it might just be a stupid way to confront as he was not happy about not getting the benefits

Werll, we have them stupids around who pay too much for everything (thats why you pay double in Finland) but YTK costs only 62 euros a year, so anythin above that means you are... mentally challenged

[CH]

but YTK costs only 62 euros a year

99 euros.

[Karhunkoski]

but YTK costs only 62 euros a year, so anythin above that means you are... mentally challenged

Not necessarily..

Choosing to go the extra step and joining a union could be a very wise decision for some immigrants working in Finland. If things turn sour and they're the victim of some sort of discrimination in the workplace, at least they have somewhere and someone to turn for help.

[Rip]

and in case somebody did not know, all of those fees are tax deductible, so if your marginal tax rate is X% you really only have to pay (1-X)% of the nominal fee.

[Pursuivant]

Choosing to go the extra step and joining a union could be a very wise decision for some immigrants working in Finland. If things turn sour and they're the victim of some sort of discrimination in the workplace, at least they have somewhere and someone to turn for help.

YTK-yhdistys with the legal help cost 17 euros extra. Seems they might have put up the prices up as well. Unions are totally useless, what they do is have fat cats in shelter jobs and fund corrupt communist politicians, nothing they do is for any benefit to an honest working man, but the greedy politicians.

[Karhunkoski]

Choosing to go the extra step and joining a union could be a very wise decision for some immigrants working in Finland. If things turn sour and they're the victim of some sort of discrimination in the workplace, at least they have somewhere and someone to turn for help.

YTK-yhdistys with the legal help cost 17 euros extra.

Yes, but the point I was trying to make was that with a union you generally have access to a local shop steward rather than a faceless contact on a phone number that probably never gets answered

...at least they have somewhere and someone to turn for help.

Unions are totally useless, what they do is have fat cats in shelter jobs and fund corrupt communist politicians, nothing they do is for any benefit to an honest working man, but the greedy politicians.

Agree with some of that. However IMO having a local representative who will/should stand up for you is of such value, that it trumps the negative aspect of indirectly supporting low-level corruption and the SDP. And you know as well as I do, the phrase, "You know you can trust a Finn" doesn't always ring true, particularly with workplace contracts and maybe even more so with vulnerable foreigners....

[tony webb]

I just wonder .....

You say that you have a student visa and have been working full time as well as studying for your degree or masters but work has delayed you in submitting your thesis...

My understanding is that you live in Finland on a student visa. Whilst the government will let you work and make contributions you are officially a student. When you became unemployed and tried to register for unemployment benefits you caused problems. The authorities probably think that you used the student visa as a substitute for a resident visa and work permit. You worked instead of completing your studies. That is illegal. The reality is that the authorities would think that you tried to beat the system!

As you say there is nothing wrong with working full time but you should still continue with your studies after all that is the sole reason for your student visa. Your studies have priority.

Also if you could register as unemployed you would invalidate your student visa because you can't be a registered job seeker and in be in full time education. It's one or the other. You may not like it but KELA have done you a favour because you can still live in Finland as a student. If they allowed you to register as a job seeker they could also get you kicked out because you have no legal entitlement to live in Finland.

[Rip]

You say that you have a student visa and have been working full time

No, that would be illegal and he did not say that. Those on student permit are not allowed to work full time (except during recess periods). He swapped to employment based permit before graduating.

[Shipwreck]

Now, before he graduates, if he loses his job and goes to Employment Office to register as unemployed job seeker then they kick in his mouth by saying you cannot register as job seeker as you are still registered as student. That means no unemployment benefit as to get unemployment benefit you have to register as unemployed jobseeker. WTF, and no student financial aid in summer. This is the freaking biggest kick in the mouth

I have to agree with most of posts so far: why should he receive any unemployment benefit if he is still registered in the uni as a student, even if he did change the basis for his res. permit? As a student he is entitled to subsidies and discounts up the whaa-zoo! You can (and in my opinion should) only be able claim one benefit package at any given time!

And, not that it is any of my business, but what happened to all them green backs that he earned during his employment period? Did he fail to plan for the possibility that one day he might get laid off and be forced to go back and actually finish his thesis? Proper mirco-finance planning calls for at least 10 percent of your paycheck to be put into savings where it can earn interest and grow. If this guy is truly struggling to pay his bills now while trying to finish the thesis he knew he would eventually have to write then maybe he should look in the mirror if he's looking for someone to blame. And also, how does he justify all those student subsidies he received during his employment period when he was both working and "studying"? That is having your cake and eating it too!

[Shipwreck]

People live their life however they want, and saving is for the ones who feels unsecure, or who has some plans. Usually for most people there ain't much needs to save money for future purpose in country like Finland.

how does he justify all those student subsidies he received during his employment period when he was both working and "studying"?

Kela in not a fool's organization.... they don't pay student subsidies for full time workers, even if they are student. There is some kind of earning limit, and if you take student aid while earning fortunes, then you have to pay back with interests.

...Are you serious? What planet are you living on that you wouldn't feel the need to contribute to your savings just in case something bad happens (i.e. losing job, which is exactly what happened in this situation). The principles of Proper financial planning don't depend on what country you live in. Saving is saving, whether you live in Finland or the Falklands, Iraq or Istanbul...And I'm sorry "usually for most people there ain't much need to save money...in Finland"???????? Are you fregin' kidding me?!?! I challenge you to find one financially solvent Finn (or any person for that matter) who hasn't at one point had to bite the bullet and focus on accumulating savings! If you truly believe that citizens of Finland are not required to contribute to their own savings just because there exists a generous social safety net to catch them if they fall then you are living in a dream world.

The earning limit you mentioned is in place for a reason: to encourage students to finish their studies in a reasonable time frame. If a person wants to earn more than this limit, then he/she should simply inform the educational institute and unregister. Then he would be free to earn as much as he wants without worrying about Kela charging him interest for student grants! If this guy consciously chose to continue working despite having to give up some student benefit then that means he was earning more than the amount students who are receiving student grant are allowed to earn as part-time workers! In other words: he would have been earning full-time workforce "fortunes" but paying student discount prices...does this seem fair to you?!? Who else can he blame for his own decision?!?

What bothers me most about this is your unfounded sense of entitlement: the state does not "owe" you any more than is defined by the rules and regulations laid out in the law. If you feel hard done by the regulations of Finnish welfare, I suggest trying to tackle the "injustices" of another country's system, like America's! I bet you wouldn't complain so much after that about the "stupid laws" in the Finnish system. It is true that people are free to live their lives however they want, and thus are free to be reckless and careless with their finances. But why should the state have to pick up the pieces of someone who was too arrogant and stupid to have a little foresight?!? The modern welfare system is meant as a last resort for those who simply do not have the financial means to meet their necessary expenses. It isn't a contest of "who can receive the most subsidies at any given time". It seems that you have a seriously distorted perception on what is the actual reality for most people living within this system. I hope for your sake, and the sake of the modern welfare system, that you begin to understand sooner rather than later that there exists a give-and-take relationship between the individual and the state. You can't just walk into the system thinking you are entitled to benefits at every turn. Your receipt of benefits is (and should be) dependent on a moral obligation to practice, insomuch as possible, self-sufficiency and personal responsibility. Clearly this guy broke this contract if he does not have a single penny left from all those months of hard work while paying student prices...