Moving to Finland in 2013. I appreciate your help!

[GT TDI]

Hello everyone.

I apologise for not having answered sooner, but i've been kind of busy with my final work in university, a lot of stuff goes on at the same time.
Well, pretty much, Finland is the country i'm interested in, because i want to be near to Estonia, as my girlfriend lives there.
Anyway.. My source of information, i can't be precise about that, because once, quite a while ago, i saw some European statistics telling that the overall rating of living conditions is the highest in Finland. The statistics were result of an average of sub-ratings in areas such as education, minimum salary, and others.. Well, it's near to Estonia, and i put the sticks together, thinking Finland would likely be a good option.
But i confess, that through you, I'm getting to know some things that will either raise my courage to go there (to face the struggling i have to go through), or just make me think about other Countries nearby, as Lithuania, like someone said.. Or maybe Sweden.

My first priority is to stay as near to Estonia as Possible, which won't be for very long (just for 4.5 years), which is the period while my girlfriend studies. And only then i can think about moving to Germany, or the UK, to get a job which is more suitable to a Mechanic Engineer. My second priority is (within the nearby countries) to get the best living conditions possible. I know that Estonia isn't rich, and that there aren't many working spots where i could go to.. But then, if not to consider Finland, i have Latvia, Lithuania, Sweden or Russia.. I don't think i would integrate in Russia.. I'm leaning to think Sweden as an alternative to Finland.

Of course.. I know that wherever i go, the same way as there are people who welcome you there, there are also people who don't like the foreigner that comes to steal their working places (especially when they are rare), and who naturally tend to motivate you to go somewhere else. But that's a reality I'm already aware of, and which i have to live with wherever i go, if i want to follow my dreams. I'm not doubting on your honesty, I'm just telling that it's the kind of answers i expect to get, anywhere i turn to.

[rinso]

because i want to be near to Estonia, as my girlfriend lives there.

Why not try Estonia?

i saw some European statistics telling that the overall rating of living conditions is the highest in Finland. The statistics were result of an average of sub-ratings in areas such as education, minimum salary, and others..

Living conditions are great if you have a well payed job.
I guess without a job you'll have a better life in Estonia. (everything is cheaper there)

I don't think i would integrate in Russia.

Might not be as difficult as Finland.

[Pursuivant]

I guess without a job you'll have a better life in Estonia. (everything is cheaper there)

Not exactly true any more. Living costs might be, but scratching up a living (even with a job) with the salaries is quite a struggle. And theres not much of a safety net.

[Adrian42]

My source of information, i can't be precise about that, because once, quite a while ago, i saw some European statistics telling that the overall rating of living conditions is the highest in Finland. The statistics were result of an average of sub-ratings in areas such as education, minimum salary, and others..

The quality of living in Finland is high.

Do you also like the cold winter with much snow and few sunshine in Finland or the other countries you mention?

Well, it's near to Estonia, and i put the sticks together, thinking Finland would likely be a good option. But i confess, that through you, I'm getting to know some things that will either raise my courage to go there (to face the struggling i have to go through), or just make me think about other Countries nearby, as Lithuania, like someone said.. Or maybe Sweden.

In any of these countries getting a job without speaking the local language will be a problem.

My first priority is to stay as near to Estonia as Possible, which won't be for very long (just for 4.5 years), which is the period while my girlfriend studies. And only then i can think about moving to Germany, or the UK, to get a job which is more suitable to a Mechanic Engineer. My second priority is (within the nearby countries) to get the best living conditions possible. I know that Estonia isn't rich, and that there aren't many working spots where i could go to.. But then, if not to consider Finland, i have Latvia, Lithuania, Sweden or Russia.. I don't think i would integrate in Russia.. I'm leaning to think Sweden as an alternative to Finland.

It is strange that you are considering Latvia and Lithuania but not Estonia - I would expect the job opportunities and salaries in these countries to be comparable.

Your first priority should be to get any job at all, no matter where. And if you don't speak Finnish fluently you will have problems finding a job in Finland.

And measuring "nearness" in travel time, a job in London or Munich is not necessarily worse than a job in Oulu or Malmö.

Of course.. I know that wherever i go, the same way as there are people who welcome you there, there are also people who don't like the foreigner that comes to steal their working places (especially when they are rare), and who naturally tend to motivate you to go somewhere else. But that's a reality I'm already aware of, and which i have to live with wherever i go, if i want to follow my dreams. I'm not doubting on your honesty, I'm just telling that it's the kind of answers i expect to get, anywhere i turn to.

That is not a common problem, and I as a foreigner have never heard this here in Finland.

This is not about motivating you to go somewhere else, but you will have big problems finding a job in any country if you don't speak the local language fluently.

The same is also true if you want to work in my home country Germany - many companies there are currently desparately searching for engineers and are happy when they find a foreigner who wants to work for them, but someone who does not speak German fluently is not an option for many German companies. That is the reason why German courses in Spain are currently completely booked out.

[Adrian42]

I don't think i would integrate in Russia.

Might not be as difficult as Finland.

Russia would be much harder:
- everyone in Finland speaks English, people speaking English are rare in Russia
- visa and work permits are not needed for him in Finland, but are an obstacle in Russia

[pavi]

Finland has high quality of living, do you know how? By paying high taxes. Its amazing that more you earn more taxes you pay. Minimum percentage of tax is 11% but it can be as much as 60% depending ofcourse on salary levels, so its not flat rate of tax(like in many countries). Getting a job for a foreigner is not easy, i managed to get one because i work in IT, still if i want to change jobs its not easy. I have applied multiple times in multiple companies over the past many years, never got shortlisted due to lack of finnish skills. Now after having tried to learn finnish for 10 years, i finally managed to pass the language certification. Still, there is partiality between native finnish speakers and foreign finnish speakers(this is something one can feel but this opinion is not conclusive). I read that your other obvious choice if Finland does not work out is also Sweden, integration for foreigners might be easier there, but getting jobs might not be that easy as 1. Sweden has enough immigration to fill special skilled jobs 2. Unemployment is quite low(7,4%) 3. Sweden is equally expensive inspite of Swedish Krone is quite strong against other currencies.

[wolf80]

Of course.. I know that wherever i go, the same way as there are people who welcome you there, there are also people who don't like the foreigner that comes to steal their working places (especially when they are rare), and who naturally tend to motivate you to go somewhere else. But that's a reality I'm already aware of, and which i have to live with wherever i go, if i want to follow my dreams. I'm not doubting on your honesty, I'm just telling that it's the kind of answers i expect to get, anywhere i turn to.

I sense that you are also still unhappy with the answers you get here. But please be aware that most people posting here do have jobs, so you are no competition for them, and that the members of the forum are Finns as well as foreigners in Finnland. Everybody here just tries to tell you how hard it is because they know how reality is. It's information as well as a warning. If people did not want you here they would tell you nothing, you would come unprepared and with a much higher propability of failure. What you get here is a fighting chance.

Choosing a country just by the living indices is not a good idea. You should choose one in which you, personally, feel at home. If you want to be near your girlfriend, the closest thing to Estonia is Estonia itself. If you go there you can be as near to her as you want. And you have each other to support yourself, and that will be very important in a completely different country, with many obstacles to overcome. If you choose Finland, that's also fine by me. But you will have the same problems with job and language, just minus the girlfriend.

For the job everything is said already. You have to decide for yourself which kind of job you would be prepared to do, and compare that to what is available.

[April87]

Hi!

If the only reason for you to come to Finland is to be near Estonia, I would recommend you to think about the UK. There are really cheap flights to Estonia from Luton airport, so price-wise and time-wise it will be pretty much the same as traveling there by ferry from HKL.

Finland is a nice place to live if you are born here because of all the social security and stuff, but adapting here is super hard, you need to talk to native speakers in order to learn Finnish, but unless you really force them into a conversation with you, they won't really talk to you...and it's super tiring to constantly chase people and make them talk to you. That's just my personal experience based on years and years. And then if your Finnish is not that great employers will be quite unwilling to hire you.

For a long time I though the problem is in me, but when I moved to the UK and the US it was like a billion times easier to make a contact with locals, even though my English wasn't perfect either in the beginning. Now I'm back to Finland, because my boyfriend studies here and i want to be near him, but as long as he's done, we're out of here.

Story about how much you need a perfect Finnish: I just applied for a job that I was a perfect candidate for. This company works with American market - I did my year long internship in the US, so I'm used to American working style. I got my BA degree in the UK, and English is the language they use for work in that company. I have work experience in the similar role. There was no need to speak Finnish whatsoever to do this job, and even though my Finnish is not perfect, it's alrightish since I graduated from the upper-secondary school here and possess a Finnish passport, they still didn't take me.

[vagrant]

I had to pay a security deposit of 200 Euro in advance (600 for a mobile contract, so be prepared to stay prepaid).

Something new in Finland, EU person paying deposit for internet and mobile phone contract.
I cannot believe, I guess you look very suspicious

[Pursuivant]

Its what looks in the computer. under 2 years you have no credit rating, so your "face value" doesn't count.

[Pursuivant]

Also, you need to be in the computer as a permanent domiceiled resident - they start calculating the two years from that.

[davsantos]

Check the group Portugueses na Finlândia in Facebook. If you want to go to Finland then go, don't listen to pessimistic people. There is a will there is a way, even if after some time you figure that wasn't the place. The journey makes it worth it. I went to Finland sleeping on a Sofa ended up living there three years. My accommodation improved throughout the time there and so did the jobs and salary. I decided to leave because I wanted to try in Germany. So here I am same story, survived and I am here and ready for more. Just go if you like it you stay if you don't you won't stay. It is a great place, loved it, great culture, great people...great experience I miss it. Viva Finland. Oh and by the way I am also Portuguese.

[Flossy1978]

Yeah, maybe Vienna City is number one in the EU, but do you not read the net Wolf80?

Melbourne in Australia was just voted as the best city in the world to live. Being an Aussie from somewhere else other than Melbourne, I don't believe that cause they're snobs and the winters are like Finnish Autumns LOL. And they're always trying to copy everything Sydney does. Trying to be better than Sydney LOL. It's all rather amusing.

But anyway....

To the poster who so desperately wants to move here. So I read you want to live here because you have girlfriend in Estonia. Why not go to Estonia? Or is your plan to come here and magically find a job and then bring your girlfriend over here to live, cause Finland's better than Estonia? These days I am beginning to wonder if life is better in Estonia, since when I was there the last time they had beautiful new glass buildings, all their churches had been renovated, people were driving Audis etc. Estonia has most certainly won the lotto joining the EU.

[cors187]

And they're always trying to copy everything Sydney does.

Everything except the higher cost of living

[Flossy1978]

True LOL.

But I don't believe Melbourne is that much cheaper these days.

Still, I lived in the richest suburb in all of Australia.... Mosman. Nothing compares to the cost of living there.... Three bedroom homes.... 2+ million dollars etc. Yeah, don't think such a thing exists in Melbourne LOL.